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Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

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Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#81

Post by tivert »

rootusrootus wrote: post #74
Turing_Machine wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Homeschooled kids frequently have to learn how to adult all at once How does sitting in a room with a bunch of kids, all of whom are within one year of you in age, with an authority figure at the front telling you exactly what to do, teach you "how to adult"? It might prepare you for Army boot camp, which is the only "adult" place you're likely to encounter that kind of environment. Even prison usually has a range…

> with an authority figure at the front telling you exactly what to do This is not an accurate description of school. Maybe, maybe in high school and college you kinda sorta get to something resembling that, but for elementary school and middle school it is nothing at all like your description. I'll grant you that 40-50 years ago it was a bit more regimented. I'm old too. But I have school age kids in both elementary…

> This is not an accurate description of school. Maybe, maybe in high school and college you kinda sorta get to something resembling that, but for elementary school and middle school it is nothing at all like your description.

Elementary and middle school are even less like being an adult than high school

I think GP's point is that the school environment is nothing like "adulting," so your original point was just plain wrong.

And I agree with the GP: I don't see any reason why home-schooled kids would be at a disadvantage to public school kids when learning to navigate the adult world, because the school environment is strange and not at all focused on "adult life skills."

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#82

Post by eszed »

Amezarak wrote: post #34
Loughla wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The college I most recently consulted with had to take a homeschool "transcript" that can literally be a signed paper from the parent handwritten with nothing to back it up. It's astounding. I don't know if that's just because that particular state doesn't have very strict rules around homeschooling, or if that's standard; I just haven't done the research.

How else do you think a transcript should work? What makes you think a random private school transcript has anything else backing it up? Presumably the students are also applying with ACT/SAT scores in hand, which do have an established meaning.

>Presumably the students are also applying with ACT/SAT scores in hand, which do have an established meaning.

Except...

>More Than 80% Of Four-Year Colleges Won’t Require Standardized Tests For Fall 2023 Admissions

>An additional 85 schools will be test-blind or score-free, meaning that applicants’ standardized exam results are not considered even if they are submitted. Included in that number is the entire California public university system....

>[And] at least 1,450 colleges and universities have made their test-optional and test-blind policies permanent.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2022/11/15/more...

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#83

Post by AlwaysRock »

Feels like there is a big homeschooling article once every other week here and a whole slew of parents saying, "We homeschool and its great and our kids love it" and then a bunch of adults saying, "I was homeschooled and it was not great, and I did not love it"

Regular schooling isn't ideal. But homeschooling is a pretty major reaction to that, and it shouldn't be done without serious consideration for the non-zero chance that your kids will resent you for that decision.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#84

Post by colpabar »

rjbwork wrote: post #77
brodouevencode wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For this anecdote I can provide you with about 20 anecdotes that are the complete opposite in nature. There is no regulation, but does there need to be? Homeschoolers take the same standardized tests as everyone else - that's about as regulatory as it needs to be (and even that's questionable).

This is just not the case. In many states it's nearly completely unregulated, and the home school lobby is working diligently to strip even those regulations.

You didn't answer his question - why are regulations on teaching your own children in your own home so necessary?

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#85

Post by hotnfresh »

Loughla wrote: post #61
Amezarak wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How else do you think a transcript should work? What makes you think a random private school transcript has anything else backing it up? Presumably the students are also applying with ACT/SAT scores in hand, which do have an established meaning.

Because they have some kind of accreditation body that monitors and approves the schools with established standards and approved/documented practices, whereas homeschool does not? And ACT/SAT has become optional since covid for most institutions.

I don't think it's the case that if you show up with a transcript written in crayon and don't bother to submit a standardized test score, your college admission prospects are likely to be very good. The tests may be optional, but I don't think that means they have to assume you'd have done well on them, if other evidence looks iffy.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#86

Post by AlwaysRock »

keiferski wrote: post #19
CharlesW wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many home-schooling success stories, and also many home-schooling horror stories. https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/05/law-school-pr...

It seems to me that the only relevant question here is how home schooling compares to public schools when it comes to “horror stories.” And there certainly aren’t a lack of public school horror stories…

I don't know if that is the only relevant question. If you have a terrible time in public/traditional school, you may resent and blame a whole slew of factors. If you have a terrible time while homeschooled, you are likely to resent and blame the people teaching you or the ones who made that decision for you. Your parents.

That is a pretty serious factor to weight.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#87

Post by hotnfresh »

generalizations wrote: post #3

> a largely unregulated practice once confined to the ideological fringe Tell me your bias without telling me you're biased.

"Somalia—a country that once conjured images of famine and interminable civil unrest—"

Is that snippet most likely an expression of bias, or is it most likely setting up to challenge bias?

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#88

Post by burkaman »

chmod600 wrote: post #62

If you home school, you don't get the money back. Public school is something like $12k/yr. That's a lot of money that you're essentially opting out of. For parents who do so for political or culture war reasons, that must seem profoundly unfair. To be driven out of the public schools means to be denied resources. Public schools using public money should be especially sensitive and as neutral as possible on political…

> as neutral as possible on political or culture war issues

I don't think it's really possible to be neutral about culture war issues, sort of by definition, especially when many of the wars are about schools themselves. A school is part of American culture, it can't somehow choose not to participate. To use a historical example, there was a culture war over teaching evolution in schools. A teacher at the time could describe the history and facts of the controversy without stating their opinion on it, but when the students leave that classroom, they are still in a school that either teaches evolution or doesn't. By existing and having a curriculum, the school takes a position in the culture war.

Imagine if your country held a referendum on a certain issue, and said "if more than 50% of citizens vote yes, the law passes, otherwise it fails". You could have a genuinely neutral opinion on the issue ("I don't care which side wins"), but you cannot take a neutral action, because not voting makes the law less likely to pass. This is unfair, and you can be mad about it, but the only way to be "neutral" would be to leave the country and renounce your citizenship so that you are no longer part of the equation. Similarly, in a culture war, the only way to be neutral would be to not participate in the culture in question, which is even more difficult than leaving a country.

Let me give one more example: whether or not to tip your server in a restaurant. Tipping 10% instead of 20% is not neutral. Tipping 50% of the time you go to a restaurant is not neutral. You could say "I don't wish to take a position, so I will no longer go to restaurants", but I'm confident the anti-tipping side would claim you as one of their own. Again it feels unfair, but it's just how culture works.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#89

Post by Amezarak »

eszed wrote: post #82
Amezarak wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How else do you think a transcript should work? What makes you think a random private school transcript has anything else backing it up? Presumably the students are also applying with ACT/SAT scores in hand, which do have an established meaning.

>Presumably the students are also applying with ACT/SAT scores in hand, which do have an established meaning. Except... >More Than 80% Of Four-Year Colleges Won’t Require Standardized Tests For Fall 2023 Admissions >An additional 85 schools will be test-blind or score-free, meaning that applicants’ standardized exam results are not considered even if they are submitted. Included in that number is the entire Californi…

One imagines that students with any reason to suspect the university they're applying to will not know enough about their high school, or possibly derogatory information about their high school, will submit an application with test scores attached in the "optional" cases.

One of the other reasons for this is because students completely unprepared for college from public schools are an increasing problem. This is also why they now all offer remedial classes under varying names and programs, and why first-year university programs are much easier than they were in say, 1940.

Re: Home schooling's rise from fringe to fastest-growing form of education

#90

Post by AlwaysRock »

Loughla wrote: post #24
krastanov wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just FYI, while I share the overall sentiment, I think you are not up to date on the socialization aspect of homeschooling. Typical homeschooling today includes activities where most homeschooled kids from the town gather together for PE or art or other enrichment activities, maybe even specialized academic activities.

There is no such thing as typical homeschooling, in my experience in education (decades and decades). It is extremely dependent on 1. access to wealth, 2. underlying reason for homeschooling (religion/safety/other item), and 3. where in the country you live (rural v suburban v urban). In that order specifically. Homeschooling is the ultimate class solidification technique. Those with wealth can almost certainly guara…

Yup. There are a few big buckets in the US.

1. Religious Home Schoolers. They are primarily homeschooled because the parents are very religious and don't want them in public schools because of fears their kids will become too secular.

2. Wealthy Home Schoolers. These are very well off people who choose to home school their kids for any number of reasons (like their traditional schooling options being poor) but can afford to hire tutors or teachers or if they teach the kids themselves, there were previously teachers.

3. Group Home Schoolers. These are families that have grouped up to split the duties of homeschooling across multiple families. Sometimes for all classes or just a few. The kids are more likely to have more day-to-day connection with other kids/students other than their siblings.

All of these groups have tons of cross over. Religious group home schoolers is a big thing right now. But your opinion on homeschooling is likely heavily built on the type of homeschooling you have witnessed/been involved in.

At the end of the day, everyone has their own experience and biases built into schooling from their own lived experiences. For every, "I was homeschooled and grew up to be very social and successful” story, there is a, "I learned nothing and I don't know how to talk to people" story.

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