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The Cloud Computer

oxide.computer

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Re: The Cloud Computer

#81

Post by gizmo »

axelthegerman wrote: post #44

> The computer that runs the cloud should be able to be purchased and not merely rented. This 100%! Not everything needs to be a subscription. Sure there are running costs for operating that cloud computer as well as ongoing software development costs. But having photo albums in the cloud shouldn't cost me $30/month just because of storage - let me buy that hard drive (and maybe compute why not) and pay $10/y for ope…

$10 per year, minus credit card fees and taxes. If you send a single email to customer support in 5 years the company already loses money. The company can't just sell you the HDD and put a warning in the FAQ that you are responsible for data loss. Because that will result in angry emails and bad reviews.

How many engineers and how many years does it take to build the infrastructure, write all the software, and deal with all the hardware to provide a photo service that "just works"? How many customers do they need before they break even? And obviously they can't raise VC because a business model that is predicated on making basically no money per customer can never have an exit. How would you bootstrap such a thing?

It feels strange that physical storage costs almost nothing on amazon but the storage attached to a cloud machine is expensive. But run the numbers and you'll see that running a cloud service isn't about hardware costs at all.

Re: The Cloud Computer

#82

Post by throw0101a »

andrewstuart wrote: post #51
depr wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want a lot of control over all the hardware in their servers. NVIDIA isn't interested in that, so they can't provide those types of servers.

AMD? Intel?

AMD helped them write their own bootloader:

> “Oxide is a strong believer in the need for open-source software at the lowest layers of the stack -- including silicon initialization and platform enablement. With the availability of AMD openSIL, AMD is showing that they share this vision. We believe that the ultimate beneficiaries of open-source silicon initialization -- as it has been for open-source revolutions elsewhere in the stack -- will be customers and end-users, and we applaud AMD for taking this important and inspiring step!”

* https://community.amd.com/t5/business/empowering-the-industr...

See Bryan Cantrill's (Oxide CTO) presentation on their adventures in this space:

* https://www.osfc.io/2022/talks/i-have-come-to-bury-the-bios-...

* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33145411 (discussion at the time)

Re: The Cloud Computer

#83

Post by dewey »

axelthegerman wrote: post #44

> The computer that runs the cloud should be able to be purchased and not merely rented. This 100%! Not everything needs to be a subscription. Sure there are running costs for operating that cloud computer as well as ongoing software development costs. But having photo albums in the cloud shouldn't cost me $30/month just because of storage - let me buy that hard drive (and maybe compute why not) and pay $10/y for ope…

I guess I don't understand how that's a radical statement if colocation was a thing even before you could rent cloud resources.

Re: The Cloud Computer

#85

Post by TrueDuality »

I'd like to add that their open source code is also EXTREMELY high quality. If you're an embedded developer go take a look at Hubris and Humility. I ended up using those to GREAT effect for this custom one-off aerospace device and it was a fantastic experience to integrate with. Definitely a change from what I was used to that took a bit of getting used to.

Re: The Cloud Computer

#87

Post by thom »

steve1977 wrote: post #72
dist1ll wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This server is for cloud operators - i.e. for organizations that are building their own cloud infrastructure. That's why Oxide is drawing comparisons to hyperscalers.

If you are building your own cloud infrastructure, you're not doing cloud computing. Unless you rent it out and are a cloud provider , but the website at least does not seem to target those.

There are many “you”s in most enterprises. If your platform engineering team builds their own cloud, and offers an experience similar to other cloud providers (or even better and more targeted), this could be a clear win.

Re: The Cloud Computer

#88

Post by mgkimsal »

I met a couple of their folks on site last week in Raleigh at the All Things Open conference. Saw a couple quick demos, and... it's not for me. But I can see the benefits, and many other folks stopping by the booth seemed to get the benefits as well. The folks at the booth were really nice too. Granted, that's sort of your job when being in a vendor booth at a conference, but it's surprising how often that's not the case (booths staffed by people who don't know the product, or are simply indifferent to the company, etc).

EDIT: "it's not for me" - I'm not working with organizations that have that sort of need directly. Re-reading that phrase, it came across as a bit dismissive of what they've built (which is undoubtedly impressive).

Re: The Cloud Computer

#89

Post by nickik »

steve1977 wrote: post #78
nickik wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CPU is commodity, nothing else is. Costume Mainboard and firmware without BIOS and their own BMCish thing and their own Root of Trust. Same for their router. Standard chip, everything else is costume.

So similar to a IBM mainframe then?

Similar in some ways different in others. But in terms of not being a PC architecture. Yes it is. But in many other ways its not at all like a Mainframe.

Re: The Cloud Computer

#90

Post by steve1977 »

dist1ll wrote: post #76
steve1977 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think so? According to their website, the compute bit is based on AMD EPYC 7713P CPUs. I can buy these at my local electroncis retailer. So pretty much commodity x86.

The difference is that when you're buying a x86 system, the entire CPU bringup (incl. AMEGAS/openSIL on AMD) runs proprietary and poorly documented firmware. You're entirely at the mercy of the vendor. Oxide has put immense effort into writing open-source platform initialization code, and built their own open-source BMC/RoT solution.

So effectively I’m at the mercy of Oxide, at least as long as their system does not become some kind of standard.

Not in theory maybe, but in practice. Because as a customer, I would probably also need to put in immense effort to understand and maintain that software myself.

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