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Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

economist.com

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Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#81

Post by watwut »

egao1980 wrote: post #69
patrakov wrote: post #4

The official version spread by the propaganda is that his lawyers did not only what lawyers should do, but also helped him pass letters from the jail to the outside world and thus control his "terrorist" organization (Anti-Corruption Foundation). This counts as complicity and direct participation in the deeds of a "terrorist" organization.

[flagged]

Speaking about manipulation devices, it was not Navalny who sent them to jail. And speaking about manipulation devices this is still Russian regime taking down opponents rather then the organization or layers doing anything illegal or bad.

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#83

Post by jimmymmcgill »

walteweiss wrote: post #59
thriftwy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is largely irrelevant now. He was significantly popular, but there is a combination of: 1. Many of his most fervent followers fleeing the country in February or September 2022. 2. His team being useless and consisting of people of very questionable loyalty (the question remains why he let them all in), and in many cases under their own brands. 3. Overall switch from the anti-corruption discourse towards different…

On top of that, the guy is literally a racist, if anyone cares to explore his past. But he’s all hero these days, because he wants to be in charge of Russian regime instead of Putin. He’s portrayed as a fighter for freedom, while actually right now, any Ukrainian soldier does more to protect the values of democracy. By literally fighting tooth and nail for it. But nobody seems to care about a Ukrainian soldier as muc…

Was waiting for this comment. Yes he did (have to) ally with nationalists in the past. He did say negative things about migrants. Nevertheless, he stated multiple times since then that it's not his views anymore.

Speaking of racism and nationalism, let's be honest Euromaidan in 2014 would never succeed without the support of the Right Sector. This type of brutal force was missing in Belarus 2020 protests.

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#84

Post by pastacacioepepe »

watwut wrote: post #81
egao1980 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Speaking about manipulation devices, it was not Navalny who sent them to jail. And speaking about manipulation devices this is still Russian regime taking down opponents rather then the organization or layers doing anything illegal or bad.

> it was not Navalny who sent them to jail

It was their breaking the law that sent them to jail.

> And speaking about manipulation devices this is still Russian regime taking down opponents rather then the organization or layers doing anything illegal or bad.

And your evidence is?

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#85

Post by ivan_gammel »

egao1980 wrote: post #69
patrakov wrote: post #4

The official version spread by the propaganda is that his lawyers did not only what lawyers should do, but also helped him pass letters from the jail to the outside world and thus control his "terrorist" organization (Anti-Corruption Foundation). This counts as complicity and direct participation in the deeds of a "terrorist" organization.

[flagged]

While formally you are correct and Russian law makes distinction between terrorism and extremism, it is wrong to equate it to the Western legal framework. Yes, at the very abstract level both Russia and Western countries have a legal system based on some formal procedure. That’s also where the commonality ends. The laws used to incarcerate Navalny and condemn his organization were either unconstitutional or applied in an unconstitutional way. One unlawful decision does not make subsequent decisions based on it lawful, it just makes them look like ones. Independent court could have found that FBK is a legal organization and thus his lawyers did not actually break the law and we should not have spoken about „consequences“.

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#86

Post by HenryBemis »

throwaway4good wrote: post #25

How much popular support does Navalny have in Russia? (I realize Russia is a banana republic and Navalny is a hero but does he actually represent something that has wide support in Russia? From the few Russians I have talked to, they seems supportive of Putin despite everything.)

I remember watching a documentary about Navalny (was it on Netflix?). The positive thing is that he is against Putin. The negative thing (imho) is that he is a 'fake' person, proper salesman, tells you what YOU want to hear/what sells and not his original ideas. He changed ideas and opinions too much, too fast in the past. He started out making crappy videos on YT about various topics. If he wouldn't oppose Putin he would be a very low-yield .

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#87

Post by picadores »

0dayz wrote: post #73
loup-vaillant wrote: post #34

Yeah, that’s downright revolting. Not surprising I guess, but still. Now there’s this white haired journalist that’s currently rotting in a British jail because of his work…

And this has to do with Russia... How? Or are we just doing whataboutism?

Its standard bot behaviour. Acknowledge. Distract. Relativize.

What remains is a fog, the uncertainty about there being truth at all. Assange should not be in prison. But the law has not decayed in the west to the point, were its non-existant anymore, power-mad anarchy dancing naked but a paper-loincloth in the streets ala russia.

The should free assange, just to silence these bots.

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#88

Post by watwut »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #84
watwut wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking about manipulation devices, it was not Navalny who sent them to jail. And speaking about manipulation devices this is still Russian regime taking down opponents rather then the organization or layers doing anything illegal or bad.

> it was not Navalny who sent them to jail It was their breaking the law that sent them to jail. > And speaking about manipulation devices this is still Russian regime taking down opponents rather then the organization or layers doing anything illegal or bad. And your evidence is?

> It was their breaking the law that sent them to jail.

Nah. Highly political and corrupt system did. Lets not lie about this. Nothing to do with breaking the law. Everything to do with being vocal opposition.

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#89

Post by petre »

Medox wrote: post #75
r721 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>knowing I think the risk was huge (personally I thought 50-70% at the time), but not 99% or something. Also (in my opinion) people don't take into account that alternative was irrelevance in exile, just look at what happened with Kasparov's popularity inside Russia, and he was a prominent opposition activist in 2011-2012.

> irrelevance in exile, just look at what happened with Kasparov's popularity inside Russia Then again, Kasparov undermines Russia more efficiently while in exile than Navalny while inside (a prison no less). And Navalvy social media statements in exile might have been even more undermining Kasparov's. Of course, undermining Russia with words might not help at all anyway...

Whatever Kasparov says or does in exile is quite irrelevant in Russia. This is how actual Russians think:

"He's not even in Russia, what does he know."

I don't know why Navalny returned to Russia after being poisoned and nearly killed by Putin's thugs, but it was a very brave thing to do. It makes no sense.

Re: Alexei Navalny's lawyers are arrested

#90

Post by thriftwy »

jimmymmcgill wrote: post #83
walteweiss wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of that, the guy is literally a racist, if anyone cares to explore his past. But he’s all hero these days, because he wants to be in charge of Russian regime instead of Putin. He’s portrayed as a fighter for freedom, while actually right now, any Ukrainian soldier does more to protect the values of democracy. By literally fighting tooth and nail for it. But nobody seems to care about a Ukrainian soldier as muc…

Was waiting for this comment. Yes he did (have to) ally with nationalists in the past. He did say negative things about migrants. Nevertheless, he stated multiple times since then that it's not his views anymore. Speaking of racism and nationalism, let's be honest Euromaidan in 2014 would never succeed without the support of the Right Sector. This type of brutal force was missing in Belarus 2020 protests.

He was hoping to get elected. You need to have broad popular support to get elected (see Trump), hence the "views".

Some time later it became apparent that he is not going to be elected and elections will not be the thing, so the new plan was getting paid by State Dept NGOs, with corresponding change to "views".

My personal take on Navalny is that he mostly was a charismatic opportunist, but eventually that lured him in a trap.

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