Live data from Hacker News

Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

dannymekic.com

81–90 of 386 posts

Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the very thing that made the USA the single world superpower by allowing it to act as a unified block instead of a pile of constantly bickering and sometimes warring states? Yeah gee why would we think that.

How has that been working out for the EU?

Look no further than the UK to judge for yourself.

Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#82
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are under-estimating the level of development in tech in the "global south" which has a differing agenda. There is now enough talent and capital in the global south to kick-start tech companies and actually it's cheaper there. The problem is that they need time to catch up to the Western big tech. Why would anyone use a local chat/social app if Twitter and Instagram exists. Now, if they are being deplatformed, i…

It's pretty trivial to list reasons why you'd want a local chat app over a US created one. It is just too difficult to make. I don't think many people admit how differently we all think about software creation, all the tools that currently exist are shaped 100% around American big tech needs (cool i guess) and the American personality. It is incredibly difficult to go off-piste and create a different paradigm on comp…

You are kinda expanding on my point? It doesn't make sense to go and build alternatives when the current platforms are just much better and already developed. However, when you are de-platformed, you are forced to build alternatives. Arabs are not going to change their minds about the conflict because the EU only allows a single narrative. That will probably just make them stick more to their point of view.

Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#83
post #60

Its just me that thinks there is something really wrong with the way politicians try to pass such controversial laws? Politicians bring up something controversial. Most of the time influenced by some lobby with very little interest in public benefit. To combat this lots of people need to do activism. Those people need to devote your time and energy to prevent such thing. So far it sounds good but after the dust settl…

What alternative do you propose? The politicians are elected representatives of and by the people.

Something like "There are only X laws allowed. Every time you want to add a new law and already have X laws, you must remove one existing law". Then we'd get laws covering the most important things without a bunch of bureaucracy on top of that.

Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#84
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What alternative do you propose? The politicians are elected representatives of and by the people.

If a law doesn't pass, the contents can't be brought up in a new law for a minimum of 5 years.

How do you define that? It’s never exactly the same contents, usually has substantial changes in the approach.

Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#85
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What alternative do you propose? The politicians are elected representatives of and by the people.

Take the money out of politics as much as possible and there will be less incentive for politicians to sell out their people

What do you mean by that? There’s already anti-corruption laws, and corruption is actually being prosecuted. To have less incentives, you’d actually have to pay politicians more, which would constitute putting more money into politics.

Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#86
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are under-estimating the level of development in tech in the "global south" which has a differing agenda. There is now enough talent and capital in the global south to kick-start tech companies and actually it's cheaper there. The problem is that they need time to catch up to the Western big tech. Why would anyone use a local chat/social app if Twitter and Instagram exists. Now, if they are being deplatformed, i…

The Global South is overwhelmingly fond of WhatsApp, to the point that it has basically replaced the PSTN in some countries. And if this EU legislation passed, Meta would almost certainly get on board in order to not lose the European market. Where do you see deplatforming, or the shaking of WhatsApp’s monopoly and room for a local competitor to grow?

>Where do you see deplatforming, or the shaking of WhatsApp’s monopoly and room for a local competitor to grow?

In the Middle East and North Africa (and Russia) Telegram seems to be competitive with WhatsApp in popularity, because people trust it more than the US-owned WhatsApp.

Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also it's important to notice the "European Commission" is the fancy name for the representatives of all the EU countries Of course, it has a structure, executive, etc, but essentially they are composed of representatives of the EU27 countries

It is a very complex system, and I say that as a US person who is used to a very complex system. In fact, I'm not really aware of any democratic nation with anything quite as byzantine. The EU Commission President is nominated by the EU Council, which is itself comprised of the heads-of-state of the member states. The President is then confirmed by the EU Parliament, which is directly elected by voters. So far this s…

Both, the European parliament and the European Council are voted for, the first directly by EU citizens, the latter by citizens of the individual EU countries everytime a new national election, and subsequent goverment formation, happens.

Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#88

The title should be shortened from "Undermining Democracy: The European Commission's Controversial Push for Digital Surveillance" simply to: "Undermining Democracy: The European Commission" . The EC is sheer horror. The thousands of years old saying: "The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state" has never been truer. I've done a short consulting gig at the European Parliament, which at least tries to be th…

Idk... The EC pushes through controversial decisions, that are not controversial between states... the bar is generally something high in this regard. National Governments get a buffer between them and discontented citizens, because "it's the EU." There is also a lot of pressure to conform to EC "consensus," parties/individuals that want to be seen as government material. EC totally discounts digital privacy especial…

You probably call the CCC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Computer_Club

Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#89

The title should be shortened from "Undermining Democracy: The European Commission's Controversial Push for Digital Surveillance" simply to: "Undermining Democracy: The European Commission" . The EC is sheer horror. The thousands of years old saying: "The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the state" has never been truer. I've done a short consulting gig at the European Parliament, which at least tries to be th…

I’m not sure I understand : European Commissioners are nominated by elected National governments, and approved by parliament. How is this not democratic ? Whether you agree with these policies or not is a different matter altogether.

Perhaps the sentiment is more about how our expectations of democracy are completely out of line with the results of democracy.

Re: Undermining Democracy: The EU Commission's Controversial Push for Surveillance

#90

To those of you on this site who get so sanctimonious about how wonderful GDPR is at mitigating the surveillance conducted by the big tech giants (most of them American), here's a wonderful example of how your cherished EU government uses both carrots and sticks. It's apparently not so much that the EU fights for individual privacy, it just doesn't like to have external competitors surveil the shit out of people with…

It's almost like laws can have good or bad effects based on their details.
Post reply on HN