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Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

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Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The appeal is in spoiling childhood innocence and not getting sued for it. Unfortunately this happens under the current system. See E.g., Star Wars. I’m not super invested in the franchise but entries after the original trilogy have been polarizing, as probably the vast majority of us here have been made aware.

True. But the reason why we talk about Public Domain so positively is that we view it as there being so much creativity that is contained for 70+ years for no reason. It's starting to turn out, and I fear the perception is getting set, that almost all of that creativity is garbage, or at least perceived as such by a growing percentage of people. Seriously though, if I was Disney, I'd bankroll secretly as much garbage…

> It's starting to turn out, and I fear the perception is getting set, that almost all of that creativity is garbage, or at least perceived as such by a growing percentage of people.

I think this might be an accurate perception of creativity that we need to accept instead of fear.

Yes, the majority of creative works are not going to be like Beethoven’s 9th, for example. The majority of them are going to be much closer to my attempt at writing a symphony (not very good, to be clear).

But if just one work out of a million that wouldn’t otherwise exist is great, isn’t that enough? I mean, we’re not forcing people, Clockwork Orange-style, to consume all this bad media!

And that is leaving aside the subjectivity of value in media. Some people even enjoy “bad” media (“so bad it’s good”).

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The appeal is in spoiling childhood innocence and not getting sued for it. Unfortunately this happens under the current system. See E.g., Star Wars. I’m not super invested in the franchise but entries after the original trilogy have been polarizing, as probably the vast majority of us here have been made aware.

True. But the reason why we talk about Public Domain so positively is that we view it as there being so much creativity that is contained for 70+ years for no reason. It's starting to turn out, and I fear the perception is getting set, that almost all of that creativity is garbage, or at least perceived as such by a growing percentage of people. Seriously though, if I was Disney, I'd bankroll secretly as much garbage…

> It's starting to turn out, and I fear the perception is getting set, that almost all of that creativity is garbage,

I'd argue the bar for releasing and consuming creative work just got lowered to non-existence. If you spend your life scrolling the "Latest" feed of TikTok or Twitter, your faith in humanity will rapidly approach rock-bottom. There is no limit to how hollow, vapid or disgusting that content can get.

The diametric opposite of that feed is not official, commercial content though. It's a misconception that I don't think even a jaded congress member would fall for. Disgusting fan-works and vapid original content is likely protected under Fair Use. Throwing your fanbase under the bus as a scapegoat for better copyright protections would never work, oh ye of little faith in the US Justice System...

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#83

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared. Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator. Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc. After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the cr…

> After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the creator of revenue.

A good chunk of the history of copyright law is publishers finding creative ways to front-run their own authors. Publishers would agree to publish your book in, say, the US - where they'd be bound by US copyright law - and then abscond with it in a country where US copyright didn't apply, and therefore the translations would be a new work wholly divorced from the author's ownership. Modern copyright law is written with the assumption that any unauthorized sale is a lost one, because nobody is going to buy the same work twice unless we take away the one that wasn't paid for correctly.

After copyright law was maximized in this way, publishers pivoted to demanding total control up-front. This created the modern creative industry with hordes of "creative working class"/"below the talent line" professions that wouldn't exist if control were atomized to individual creators negotiating licensing agreements for everything. One quirk of this new business model is that certain legacy rights became far more lucrative. Publishers realized that they could take works off the market and then bring them back to profit off FOMO, or sell 'better' versions of the same work twice anyway.

You still come to the same conclusion I have, though, which is that the problem is term length. Instead of carving out new loopholes, variable term lengths, etc... just make them smaller overall. The publishers won't negotiate with us, why negotiate with them?

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#84
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An existing owner of a copy of the media should have access to it for the duration, but I can't get to why it should become freely shareable. Because copyright laws (in the US at least) are (supposed to) provide to creators a limited time monopoly on their work in order to "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts". Getting the right to squat on a piece of art that you claimed copyright over but not doing…

Plus, when a game is out of print, any third-party resales don't benefit the original copyright holder anyway. Nintendo doesn't profit off those $120 SoulSilver cartridges for sale on eBay.

Well they've got that covered by now selling you non-transferable licenses to games instead, so the second-hand market simply can't exist anymore...

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#85

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared. Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator. Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc. After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the cr…

But the value of something is often its scarcity... The owner of Once Upon a Time in Shaolin by Wu Tang would be pretty mad if it was freely shared because it couldn't be bought or rented. Context from Wikipedia for those who don't know it: "Once Upon a Time in Shaolin is the seventh studio album by the American hip hop group Wu-Tang Clan. Only one physical copy of the album was created, with no ability to download o…

Further context: Once Upon a Time in Shaolin was bought by Martin Shkreli, who then got arrested, and the album fell into US custody. It's probably been auctioned off since.

Wu-Tang Clan intended this to be a weird kind of performance art, so I won't judge them for this. However, this kind of artificial scarcity is absolute bullshit. The whole reason why we have copyright law is so that creative works are created and made widely available, not to create new asset classes for the ten-figures class to park money in.

Nintendo's argument wouldn't be that they only intended to make so many Wiis. Their argument would be that copyright is about control, they're entitled to control, and if you don't like it you can go fuck yourself[0]. To them, Once Upon a Time in Shaolin is just copyright maximalist extremism: yes, if we think we'll make more money selling one copy and denying the rest of the world access to the work, then it's our right, and anything less than our right is equivalent to setting loose a home-invading rapist[1].

[0] This is rhetorical, I do not actually intend for any commenters on HN to do that.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Valenti#Valenti_on_new_te...

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#86
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People bought eShop software and physical hardware that they can no longer use or update. Yeah, about that - ‘FAQ from Nintendo says that players will be able to download patches and redownload games purchased from the eShop “for the foreseeable future.”’ Directly from the link in the OP.

If the original Wii and DSi are any indication, the store shutdowns should follow in just couple of years.

[deleted]

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#87
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People bought eShop software and physical hardware that they can no longer use or update. Yeah, about that - ‘FAQ from Nintendo says that players will be able to download patches and redownload games purchased from the eShop “for the foreseeable future.”’ Directly from the link in the OP.

If the original Wii and DSi are any indication, the store shutdowns should follow in just couple of years.

I will complain about it once I see it happen.

Wii and DSi were released during the time when digital game stores were just emerging and were not nearly as commonly used as they are now, so, at the time, it felt like they were an afterthought. It was the first generation of consoles that even had digital stores in the first place (as Wii and DSi were a part of the same generation as Xbox360 and PS3, and GameCube/PS2/Xbox [from the prior generation] didn’t have digital stores).

Almost 2 decades later, in the present, digital game stores are the primary method of purchasing games for tons of people, and their share only keeps growing. I think these days, it is a bit more difficult and damaging to just abruptly sunset them the same way it went with Wii and DSi.

We will see how it goes, but I will save my outrage until Nintendo actually does or announces doing such a move. Otherwise, I would just be fighting the windmills created by my projections of what Nintendo might theoretically do in the future.

Love your username btw.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#88
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, when a game is out of print, any third-party resales don't benefit the original copyright holder anyway. Nintendo doesn't profit off those $120 SoulSilver cartridges for sale on eBay.

Well they've got that covered by now selling you non-transferable licenses to games instead, so the second-hand market simply can't exist anymore...

That is one of the major reasons the game industry wants to push consumers to all-digital.

Another reason is that costs are far lower with digital distribution as is time to market.

Re: Nintendo’s Wii U and 3DS online services will shut down in April

#90
post #34

It’ll never happen, but I think codifying a concept similar to “abandonware” in law would be a huge step forward. If a person can’t buy or rent a piece of media, then it should be able to be freely shared. Maybe add a short time-out period in case there are momentary hiccups with a creator. Make it apply not just to videogames, but books, movies, music, etc. After all, if you can’t buy it, you’re not depriving the cr…

Hmm. I don't think I agree with the philosophy of it, even if the outcome is good for consumers. For one, just because something is not available for purchase does not mean that the creator is not deprived of the would-be revenue. An existing owner of a copy of the media should have access to it for the duration, but I can't get to why it should become freely shareable. Secondly, that puts an unfair burden on creator…

One instance I recently saw in the eXo project was them trying to figure out who owned a magazine. First guy 'i sold it to second guy' second guy 'i sold it to thrid guy' third guy 'never owned it first one always owned it'. Basically one of those 3 own it but do not even care anymore about it other than 'not mine'. There are a lot of instances of 'lost ownership'.
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