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Terry Tao's generals (2012)

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Re: Terry Tao's generals (2012)

#81

Post by mijoharas »

OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #14

Thought this Oppenheimer anecdote may amuse the HN contingent. "Oppenheimer obtained his Doctor of Philosophy degree in March 1927 at age 23, supervised by Max Born.[28][29] After the oral exam, James Franck, the professor administering, reportedly said, "I'm glad that's over. He was on the point of questioning me."[30] " Franck had won the Nobel two years earlier. Sources: [Refs] quoted directly from Wikipedia artic…

So, one of my favourite stories is Witggenstein's Phd viva. He submitted the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus as his PhD thesis.

Apparently on the way into his viva he said to Bertrand Russel "Don't worry, I know you'll never understand it.".[0] He passed with flying colours.

(Note: I tried to google and didn't find a primary source, but post saying the same thing I remembered, so possible citation needed here)

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33910633

Re: Terry Tao's generals (2012)

#82

Post by zem »

thsksbd wrote: post #51
NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep making this mistake. I almost asked "why philosophy, didn't he study physics?" That does make me wonder: why DOES the qualification/position/status name mention only philosophy?

PhD is a license to teach (i.e. doctor) philosophy. Specifically, in "science" fields, natural philosophy. Natural philosophy was the original (and i think better) name for science, especially physics. It was understood to be an important subbranch of philosophy. I think its better name because it elucidates an important epistemological difference: science is a method, not knowledge. I learn science when I learn abou…

> Im not learning science when I learn about evolution; rather Im learning a theory, very likely to be true, that is almost impossible to put under scrutiny using the scientific method.

the very definition of a "theory" in the scientific sense of the word (e.g. "theory of evolution") includes the ability to test it using the scientific method.

the wikipedia page goes into great detail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

and this is a good brief explanation: https://web.archive.org/web/20170709065046/http://science.ke...

Re: Terry Tao's generals (2012)

#83

Post by dotancohen »

engineer_22 wrote: post #34
NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep making this mistake. I almost asked "why philosophy, didn't he study physics?" That does make me wonder: why DOES the qualification/position/status name mention only philosophy?

Early in the tradition of thinking, practitioners of thinking were called philosophers. In those times there was no distinction between the physics of the world and of the mind, physics and metaphysics were one in the same. As philosophy evolved, new branches became distinct, mathematics, physics, and later chemistry and others. The basis of all of these branches of the sciences owe their place to the work done by th…

  > Which is to say, you can reason.
I find this sentence a very concise phrasing for how I appreciate those with a degree vs. those without. I personally do not have a degree, but I far prefer working with people who do - simply because I can trust that they can reason.

Re: Terry Tao's generals (2012)

#85

Post by GTP »

bmitc wrote: post #78
GTP wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar either, but here they are talking about graduate students [0]. I guess it's a sort of final cumulative exam at the end of the programme. [0] https://web.math.princeton.edu/generals/

The exams would be at the beginning to middle of the program.

I mean a final exam at the end of the program covering not just a single subject but potentially anything you studied during the program. But in practice it has to be more restricted, that's why they ask him what he prepared: it could be potentially anything, but to practical reasons they have to restrict it to a few subjects. Still more fields than what is covered by a single course. Or at least this is my interpretation.

Re: Terry Tao's generals (2012)

#87

Post by bmitc »

GTP wrote: post #85
bmitc wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exams would be at the beginning to middle of the program.

I mean a final exam at the end of the program covering not just a single subject but potentially anything you studied during the program. But in practice it has to be more restricted, that's why they ask him what he prepared: it could be potentially anything, but to practical reasons they have to restrict it to a few subjects. Still more fields than what is covered by a single course. Or at least this is my interpret…

I knew what you meant, but as I said, these type of exams are not at the end of a PhD program. At Princeton, it appears that the general exam occurs after year one or two: https://www.math.princeton.edu/graduate/requirements

Re: Terry Tao's generals (2012)

#88

Post by sampo »

GTP wrote: post #75
yu3zhou4 wrote: post #71

Sorry for asking, but I'm not familiar with this term. "Generals" means "final exam"? For PhD?

I'm not familiar either, but here they are talking about graduate students [0]. I guess it's a sort of final cumulative exam at the end of the programme. [0] https://web.math.princeton.edu/generals/

> graduate students

As far as I understand, in America graduate student can mean both a M.Sc. student and a Ph.D. student.

Re: Terry Tao's generals (2012)

#89

Post by sampo »

turndown wrote: post #63
OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #14

Thought this Oppenheimer anecdote may amuse the HN contingent. "Oppenheimer obtained his Doctor of Philosophy degree in March 1927 at age 23, supervised by Max Born.[28][29] After the oral exam, James Franck, the professor administering, reportedly said, "I'm glad that's over. He was on the point of questioning me."[30] " Franck had won the Nobel two years earlier. Sources: [Refs] quoted directly from Wikipedia artic…

My favorite? When Von Neumann(an Austrian aristocrat) walked into his oral exam, Hilbert asked another of the admistrators who his tailor was.

> Von Neumann(an Austrian aristocrat)

Usually Von Neumann is thought to be Hungarian. Born in Budapest, which at the time was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Re: Terry Tao's generals (2012)

#90

Post by GTP »

tester756 wrote: post #74
CraigRo wrote: post #46

First of all, nobody ever passed these exams with flying colors unless the examiners wanted that to happen or were having a bad day. Assume that there are three full professors testing you, and they have an average of 20 years each of post-graduate experience. That's 60 years of reading -- no way that a 2nd or 3rd year graduate student can keep up. Part of the process is humiliating the students a bit -- they did thi…

>Assume that there are three full professors testing you, and they have an average of 20 years each of post-graduate experience. That's 60 years of reading who cares? 10 juniors with year of experience don't make it even close to decade of experience

Yes, what you're pointing out is that it doesn't scale linearly. But the point still stands.
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