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9/11 in Realtime

911realtime.org

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Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#81

Post by cmrdporcupine »

civilitty wrote: post #72
swozey wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have the time to dig around for examples but reading IRC logs (which I mention in another comment) is really ... interesting. I haven't read them in years but I remember the vitriol toward Muslims being absolutely astonishing. But it was ye olde 2000s..

> I haven't read them in years but I remember the vitriol toward Muslims being absolutely astonishing. But it was ye olde 2000s.. Not only has the vitriol not gone away, the targets have vastly expanded. Go read the worldnews subreddit coverage of the war in Ukraine, for example: lots of talk about "Russian scum" and other dehumanization of the enemy upvoted to the top.

I also see it from the other line -- lots of people who've taken the bus so far to the right that they talk about Putin as a hero fighting against our "degenerate" western leaders.

It's pretty dark out there in popular discourse right now.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#82

Post by esotericimpl »

sanderjd wrote: post #79
blamazon wrote: post #35

There are so many incredible stories of heroism from this day, but, I will highlight that of Rick Rescorla. [1] After 1993, before 9/11: > Feeling that the authorities lost legitimacy after they failed to respond to his 1990 warnings, he concluded that employees of Morgan Stanley, which was the largest tenant in the World Trade Center, could not rely on first responders in an emergency and needed to empower themselve…

Thank you for that story. Do you know of a book that covers the event from this angle? I'm totally tapped out on the usual treatment of the event focused on geopolitics before and after it, but I would like to read in long form about the actions of the actual people there and nearby that day.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2002/02/11/september-11th...

This is the greatest article written for an actual 9/11 hero.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#83

Post by cout »

sanderjd wrote: post #59
causi wrote: post #3

If you want to get a handle on how the War on Terror started and how everybody felt about it, I highly recommend listening to some of the live radio shows from that morning, such as the Howard Stern show. You look back now and question how we could've let it get so out of hand, but watching people react to it in real time takes you right back to the emotions it triggered. I don't think I've ever felt that degree of c…

I remember the feeling extremely clearly. And I still remember that feeling extending to the beginning of the war in Afghanistan, which I thought seemed justified and right. But I just as clearly remember how confused, frustrated, and just so disillusioned with the wisdom of my elders (I was still a teenager at this time) I felt when they were all so gung ho about invading Iraq, which clearly at the time had absolute…

I know next to nothing about geopolitics, but I always figured the the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan had something Iran since it's sandwiched between them.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#84

Post by enterprise_cog »

mc32 wrote: post #77
enterprise_cog wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see the ignorance of the people in this country from that anger. Those people celebrating were on the receiving end of American terrorism abroad.

Sometimes —but in many cases people in areas unaffected directly by American policy were celebrating as if they felt a tribalistic attachment perhaps to the aggrieved. You're arguing that two wrongs make a right and in such argument the stronger party will win.

I’m not arguing that two wrongs make a right. I’m saying actions have consequences. And how could you possibly know those people celebrating we’re not affected by US policy and military exploits?

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#85

Post by mdaniel »

keepamovin wrote: post #14

That's incredible! What an amazing project. The classic Macintosh desktop is also very well done. Does anyone know the source code for the desktop used? I found the projects in the "About" open source notices section of the desktop. It uses: - https://github.com/robbiebyrd/platinum which itself is based on: - https://github.com/npjg/classic.css - https://github.com/ticky/classic-scrollbars for the scroll-bars

> The classic Macintosh desktop is also very well done

Two things, in my opinion: trying to be whimsical and "fun" for such a grave topic is disrespectful, and I don't understand what value appropriating Apple's logo and the "finder face" in the corner add to the 9/11 retrospective experience

So, fine, maybe I'm just not happy-go-lucky enough to appreciate why this needs to be a classic Macintosh theme, but I am 100% positive that this experience doesn't need those branding elements to reenact 9/11 anythings

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#86

Post by enterprise_cog »

adrianmonk wrote: post #80
enterprise_cog wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a coincidence that raw anger led to enabling the plans of the Project for a new American century.

The sun coming up in the morning enables plans to generate solar power, but the sun doesn't require our intervention.

So the planes hitting the towers were as natural as the sun rising in the morning? What?

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#88

Post by gnicholas »

keepamovin wrote: post #14

That's incredible! What an amazing project. The classic Macintosh desktop is also very well done. Does anyone know the source code for the desktop used? I found the projects in the "About" open source notices section of the desktop. It uses: - https://github.com/robbiebyrd/platinum which itself is based on: - https://github.com/npjg/classic.css - https://github.com/ticky/classic-scrollbars for the scroll-bars

My first reaction was “wasn’t OS X out when 9/11 happened?”. But I understand that many people were running OS 9.x at the time, since it was only 6 months after the OS X launch date.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#89

Post by sanderjd »

civilitty wrote: post #70

I was in elementary school on the West Coast at the time so by the time I was getting ready for school, one of the towers had already collapsed and I woke up to apocalyptic scenes on television that I first thought was a massive earthquake. In class, no one said a single thing about what had just happened which made me feel like I was going crazy. It still makes me feel sick to this day what happened afterwards. I wa…

I wouldn't say "even as a child", I would say "especially as a child". In my experience, this was a far more common experience among those of us who were not yet adults at the time, than among the adults. I have long felt that it is the greatest generational dividing line in the US. I was about half way through high school at the time, and the prevailing perspective of the march to war seems to be very different among even those just a few years older and in college at the time, than among myself and people near my same age and younger.

I do think I understand it better now that I have my own children. I can imagine my fear for them driving me to supporting things that struck me as mindless vengeful insanity at the time.

I hope I'll never have to find out how I would react now to a tragedy like this.

Re: 9/11 in Realtime

#90

Post by epiccoleman »

I was in 4th grade when this happened. A relatively normal morning quickly turned into a bunch of kids sitting in class watching the news.

My memories of the day itself are hazy. I was too young to really understand, of course.

It's pretty harrowing to watch the footage up to the second impact. The sudden change in tone from somewhat detached coverage of something we were yet to understand is really something. The shock of the newscasters when that second plane hit. Crazy how easy it was to see that second impact with all the cameras turned on the building.

I didn't expect my heart to pound the way it is from watching this. Chilling stuff.

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