[deleted]
New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory
81–90 of 403 posts
Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s an amazing bit of history. Leaders of major powers have regularly been assassinated in history. Here the leader of a globally hegemonic nation was assassinated on camera.
Google tells me the number of leaders/former leaders assassinations in recent history that have been caught on camera is indeed very low. Kennedy, Gaddafi, Shinzo Abe, Benazir Bhutto, Yitzhak Rabin, Rajiv Gandhi, Anwar Sadat.
There are more, if you include the failed assassinations. Reagan, Pope JPII...
Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory
#83I don't know why people are so obsessed with this conspiracy theory. Occam's Razor says it was Oswald. Why invest time speculating and arguing over it when there is no way to verify anything? This new revelation doesn't change anything, it's just hearsay.
Oswald was a marine sharpshooter, and it took him 3 shots with a scoped rifle (probably at point blank range, though I don't know the ballistics of that gun). That suggests it wasn't Oswald. Though even then Oswald clearly would have been standing next to the unknown shooter urging him to do it.
For the record, a "marine sharpshooter" is an almost meaningless term. Virtually any physically healthy person is capable of meeting this bar with an hour or two of practice. It sounds way more impressive than it is. Oswald was in no way a highly skilled shooter. In fact, he had extremely basic firearms skills.
Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory
#84The problem with conversations about this topic and similar topics (9/11) is that almost no-one who cares about the topic deeply enough to have an argument about it online is interested because they're just super into ballistics and forensics and don't care about the political implications. It's all motivated reasoning because they don't like the _implications_ of the official story for whatever reason (or, alternati…
"Nobody is going to be arguing in good faith about it."
Saying that "nobody" is willing to discuss this in good faith is going way too far. Just because I don't expect anyone to be able to convince me that it wasn't a conspiracy doesn't mean I'm not open to the possibility.
All good faith means, in this context, is that one is willing to maintain intellectual honesty. That may be hard for many but far from all.
Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory
#85The problem with conversations about this topic and similar topics (9/11) is that almost no-one who cares about the topic deeply enough to have an argument about it online is interested because they're just super into ballistics and forensics and don't care about the political implications. It's all motivated reasoning because they don't like the _implications_ of the official story for whatever reason (or, alternati…
Exactly. How a CIA faction used Cuban exiles to assassinate him is far less interesting than why.
The "why" (motive) is the most clear part: JFK was not willing to invade Cuba and depose Castro. To say this this really pissed off the DoD, CIA, Mafia, and Cuban rebels is putting it extremely mildly. They hated JFK with a murderous passion.
Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Precisely. They list of groups that might have pulled the trigger on Kennedy is dozens long. Knowing which one did, decades later, really changes nothing.
Well why study history at all? Nothing in it has any more impact on us, no? Why try to determine who murdered a person even if it was decades later and the killer might be alive? It doesn’t matter anymore right? I’m not in the conspiracy theorist crowd, but the “doesn’t matter anymore” crowd is disappointing.
Just read "doesn't matter" as "I'm not very interested in history" to get a more clear picture of who you're talking to.
It's true that it doesn't have a huge impact on modern life but it matters a lot to anyone who is interested in having an accurate view of history.
Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory
#87I don't know why people are so obsessed with this conspiracy theory. Occam's Razor says it was Oswald. Why invest time speculating and arguing over it when there is no way to verify anything? This new revelation doesn't change anything, it's just hearsay.
Occam's razor is a tool not a proof.
Yup.
Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory
#88The problem with conversations about this topic and similar topics (9/11) is that almost no-one who cares about the topic deeply enough to have an argument about it online is interested because they're just super into ballistics and forensics and don't care about the political implications. It's all motivated reasoning because they don't like the _implications_ of the official story for whatever reason (or, alternati…
> Probably if you're about to comment on this post, you've got some motivated reasoning behind it that has nothing to do with finding out what really happened. I'm not sure that's true in this case. I remember 9/11, but I wasn't even born yet when the Kennedy assassination happened. I doubt that many people under age 70 remember that personally. It doesn't really have emotional salience for most people now. For me, i…
> I doubt that many people under age 70 remember that personally.
I think OP's point is that personal remembrance, direct knowledge/witness, or subject matter expertise is not a requirement when it comes to defending one's strongly invested world view. Instead of looking at evidence, people start with a vague belief about the world and then draw the lines between everything that happens and that world view.
For example: "There are inscrutable elites that operate in secret to control the world." This is a vague and close to impossible-to-prove assertion, but people believe it strongly, and they use this world view to explain everything they have questions about. JFK was obviously assassinated for going against the Shadowy Elite! If you take your belief as a given, many wild explanations simply follow logically. 9/11 was orchestrated by this Elite to [do whatever The Elite does, there are a wide range of speculation even among the "shadowy elite" believers]. COVID was planned by The Elite. It goes on and on, and everything makes sense when you're working from that one assumption.
If you argue with someone against any of these particular things, you're not going to get anywhere because disproving even one of these calls into question the world view that all his other beliefs are pinned to.
EDIT: Parent commenter I see what you're saying now and yea I totally agree!
Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Probably if you're about to comment on this post, you've got some motivated reasoning behind it that has nothing to do with finding out what really happened. I'm not sure that's true in this case. I remember 9/11, but I wasn't even born yet when the Kennedy assassination happened. I doubt that many people under age 70 remember that personally. It doesn't really have emotional salience for most people now. For me, i…
> I doubt that many people under age 70 remember that personally. I think OP's point is that personal remembrance, direct knowledge/witness, or subject matter expertise is not a requirement when it comes to defending one's strongly invested world view. Instead of looking at evidence, people start with a vague belief about the world and then draw the lines between everything that happens and that world view. For examp…
> If you argue with someone against any of these particular things, you're not going to get anywhere because disproving even one of these calls into question the world view that all his other beliefs are pinned to.
I don't dispute that there are people like this. What I was disputing, specifically, was the overgeneralization, applying this characterization to everyone: "Nobody is going to be arguing in good faith about it. Probably if you're about to comment on this post, you've got some motivated reasoning behind it that has nothing to do with finding out what really happened."
Even among those who are into a "Shadowy Elite" conspiracy theory, I don't see a lot of emotional investment remaining nowadays in the JFK conspiracy specifically. Of course they're obsessed now with Covid, for example. JFK is old news, not salient.
Re: New JFK assassination revelation could upend the lone gunman theory
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, just from the top of my head and rather recently: 1. the NSA lost all of its malwares/zero days to the Russians 2. The NSA lost a huge amount of documents detailing a large amount of their billion dollars sigint sources and tech catalog 3. China was able to steal US nuclear weapons design 4. The CIA itself lost its entire internal wiki 5. Top secret documents were on discord for over a month Yet somehow these omn…
Organizations keep secrets all the time. A huge amount of American history is learned after the fact when documents are declassified.
So despite countless of soviet spies in the FBI and CIA, the end of the cold war, defectors and open archives
The JFK assassination still remained a secret?