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BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

forbes.com

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Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#81

Post by 13of40 »

ketralnis wrote: post #28
gnicholas wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was actually a little more nuanced — they offered a one-time purchase (at a normal-ish price), or the option to purchase via subscription. I have no problem with this arrangement, which literally offers consumers more choices. The concerns I would have are (1) that the one-time pricing would gradually creep up, so that in a few years it becomes untenable, or (2) that when you sell the car, the heated seats would b…

In either of these cases the car you exchanged your money for physically had the seat heaters in it already. You were buying (or renting) the password to be allowed to use your own belongings. To me this isn't nuanced at all. It's my fucking car, get out of here with this rent-seeking DLC shit.

The devil's advocate could argue that they provided the hardware at a loss under the assumption that they would recoup their money through subscriptions. That's a silly position in this case, though, because heated seats have been a thing for decades so there's no R&D work they need to pay off, and the cost of the actual heating elements and wires is trivial compared to the cost of the car.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#82

Post by Flatcircle »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #45
Flatcircle wrote: post #30

Oh that's too bad, as a consumer, I would have loved to have been obligated to pay for that feature in perpetuity.

You wouldn't have been obligated, they were also going to offer it as a 1 time payment for the same price they've always charged for heated seats. But, the subscription option is the only thing that ever made the news.

yeah you'd be obligated if you wanted to use the seats. and there's no reason to defend the idea, it's not like they were doing anything other than try to make more money. Because it's not software that needs to be updated or anything. It's a straight up physical device that was sold as a subscription to make more money period.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#83

Post by bshep »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #77
bshep wrote: post #36

Probably a good idea, I pretty much eliminated them from the list of possibilities when shopping for a car this year because of this. I’m just one data point but I’m pretty sure im not the only lost sale.

Why did you eliminate them exactly... you don't want the added weight of the heated seat since you had no use for that option?

I find the subscription model leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I’d rather pay up front or pay to add it later. I also firmly believe in voting with you wallet and it doesnt matter what their marketing says, they are backtracking because it did not generate the income they hoped.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#84

Post by gnicholas »

thfuran wrote: post #49
gnicholas wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BMW maintained the one-time purchase option. The subscription was added for people who only wanted to pay intermittently (or who were buying a BMW new, but somehow didn't have the $500 to pay for heated seats upfront).

That there exists an alternative doesn't make the subscription better.

I would heartily disagree. When I go to buy some software, which I purchase via one-time purchase, I do not care one bit that they also offer a subscription. If the subscription is a ripoff, then those customers are effectively subsidizing my purchase. And if it's a great deal, then maybe I should consider subscribing instead of paying a lump sum. Either way, I'm not hurt by the additional payment option existing.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#85

Post by gnicholas »

adrr wrote: post #43
gnicholas wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my iPhone disconnects from my car (even one without CarPlay), it remembers the car's location.

I just leave an Airtag in my cars. Always know where they are.

Also useful for tracking your car in case it's stolen.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#86

Post by ketralnis »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #79
ketralnis wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In either of these cases the car you exchanged your money for physically had the seat heaters in it already. You were buying (or renting) the password to be allowed to use your own belongings. To me this isn't nuanced at all. It's my fucking car, get out of here with this rent-seeking DLC shit.

It is nuanced. If they did not sell the car for a penny more than last years model without heated seats, in other words they put up the money for the heated seat hardware in hopes of recouping that cost (and making their usual profit on it) later, then I don't see why people have a problem with getting the same features for the same price as last year. In fact, as someone who likes to buy lightly used cars, I love th…

None of that is my problem. My belongings belong to me. I don't care if a bean counter somewhere was slightly happier about it before it got to me. The moment the car is my car, it's no longer their car to start charging me access to.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#87

Post by nebula8804 »

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #15
gumballindie wrote: post #5

BMW in particular, and german carmakers as a whole are in for a rough decade. Declining quality and increasing competition will pose the kind of risks not even eu protectionism can shield them from. One such risk is china. German carmakers desperately need new markets and china is one of them. But germany and the eu cant bully china and they will want access to european markets in return. And what i am reading and he…

After the revelations about carmaker privacy concerns[0], it seems that having options from privacy-conscious Germany is necessary for the market. BMW was one of the better ones (admittedly in a sea of quite-bad), according to Mozilla's read of the legalese. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37404413

Seems like Mazda wasn't even in the list. When the Mozilla site dropped I immeaditly searched for Mazda and either Mozilla didn't test them or Mazda don't collect any meaningful info. They are old school in many ways. This mentality sucks sometimes:

-their attempts at lowering fleet emissions is to just drop trucks and make all their cars use a series of efficient engines but not actually adopt EVs seriously until way down the line. This meets the goal(others get to the same number by selling gas guzzlers + compliance EVs) but is really against the grain.

Other times this old school mentality is good.

-insisting on not using touch screens so drivers dont get frustrated and can focus on the road

-sticking with traditional transmission instead of those god awful CVTs

-probably not adopting the infrastructure to make mass surveillance in their cars possible (or so I guess).

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#88

Post by taylodl »

gnicholas wrote: post #17
seydor wrote: post #8

It's not controversial, everyone thinks it's ridiculous

It was actually a little more nuanced — they offered a one-time purchase (at a normal-ish price), or the option to purchase via subscription. I have no problem with this arrangement, which literally offers consumers more choices. The concerns I would have are (1) that the one-time pricing would gradually creep up, so that in a few years it becomes untenable, or (2) that when you sell the car, the heated seats would b…

If I bought the heated seats via a one-time purchase then that feature should transfer to the new owner. It may require that transfer of ownership be registered with BMW.

If I rented the heated seats, or hadn't bought or rented the heated seats, then the new buyer should have the option to rent the heated seats or make a one-time purchase to just buy them.

This seems pro-consumer to me. I don't want heated seats (no, really, I don't!) and I would never buy them on my car. But, when I go to sell my car the new buyer can purchase heated seats if they so choose. That increases the market to which I can sell my car, and makes more cars available to buyers. Increased supply drives prices down.

No matter how you slice it and dice it the end result is the same: drive prices down and provide more options to consumers. I don't understand the backlash.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#89

Post by bonestamp2 »

bshep wrote: post #83
bonestamp2 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you eliminate them exactly... you don't want the added weight of the heated seat since you had no use for that option?

I find the subscription model leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I’d rather pay up front or pay to add it later. I also firmly believe in voting with you wallet and it doesnt matter what their marketing says, they are backtracking because it did not generate the income they hoped.

They didn't take away the option to pay once upfront though. They just added the option to pay monthly.

Re: BMW drops controversial heated seats subscription

#90

Post by bonestamp2 »

Flatcircle wrote: post #82
bonestamp2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn't have been obligated, they were also going to offer it as a 1 time payment for the same price they've always charged for heated seats. But, the subscription option is the only thing that ever made the news.

yeah you'd be obligated if you wanted to use the seats. and there's no reason to defend the idea, it's not like they were doing anything other than try to make more money. Because it's not software that needs to be updated or anything. It's a straight up physical device that was sold as a subscription to make more money period.

> yeah you'd be obligated if you wanted to use the seats

Not true. You could pay once up front for the heated seat option, just like every year they offered heated seats as an option in the past. I'm not defending the subscription option, I agree the subscription option is silly.

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