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Northern summer was hottest on record by a significant margin

cnn.com

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Re: Northern summer was hottest on record by a significant margin

#81

Post by mrguyorama »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #28
taylodl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were the aerosols from above-ground nuclear bomb detonations? I remember seeing a graph years and years ago that showed the temperatures really starting to rise was above-ground nuclear bomb testing was banned. Crazy spur-of-the-moment idea - should we pursue dumping some sort of aerosol into the upper atmosphere to reduce the amount of heat Earth receives from the sun? Obviously this shouldn't be pursued in lieu of…

Sulphur oxides have been proven to reduce global warming - when the ocean freighters cleaned up their emissions in a bid to stop pollution we saw increases in temperature. I hear people suggesting that we dump a ton of that in the upper atmosphere, but adding more crap to the air to try and stop the previous crap reminds me of how the old lady who swallowed the fly ended up with horse-sized problems.

Except we don't need to replace those sulfur dioxide emissions with more sulfur dioxide; Salt water misted into the air has the same effect, while being pretty unlikely to harm anything.

Re: Northern summer was hottest on record by a significant margin

#82

Post by t_tsonev »

Filligree wrote: post #63
TomK32 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having it operational and delivering gas for decades to come would have been worse for the environment. Germany is still a bit tumbling but definitely will move from gas and oil to other means of heating.

Yeah, they're doing well at moving to coal.

Stop spreading FUD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Germany

Re: Northern summer was hottest on record by a significant margin

#83

Post by mrguyorama »

zacharytelschow wrote: post #56
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/27/world/july-hottest-month-reco... There is a decent amount of confidence that it's an outlier in the last 120,000 years, but you're right, there are no written records that far back. Regardless, do you find it reassuring to know that the world is rapidly changing in a way that's proving to be predictable? We can easily look at that chart and guess what it's going to look like over the ne…

> We can easily look at that chart and guess what it's going to look like over the next 10 years. That's why all the past predictions have been so accurate, right? "But we know more now." We do not. Some intellectual humility by those wanting tyranical control over our lives would be fantastic.

You mean the 1970s internal exxon graph that tracks very well with reality?

Re: Northern summer was hottest on record by a significant margin

#84

Post by mrguyorama »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #75
edgyquant wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is not a “decent amount of confidence” and your CNN link provides no proof that there’s any at all outside of a sentence claiming tree rings and coral mean it may be. There is so much disinformation (from both sides) and fear mongering about this subject that anything not a direct and peer reviewed source should not be taken as any kind of proof of anything.

To portray this as a "both sides" problem is to wildly misunderstand the scientific discourse, or mistake it for the political one.

The american right desperately want this to be a political fight so they can continue to ignore and profit from it for another few decades while they all die off and not have to worry about the consequences

Re: Northern summer was hottest on record by a significant margin

#85

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

mrguyorama wrote: post #81
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sulphur oxides have been proven to reduce global warming - when the ocean freighters cleaned up their emissions in a bid to stop pollution we saw increases in temperature. I hear people suggesting that we dump a ton of that in the upper atmosphere, but adding more crap to the air to try and stop the previous crap reminds me of how the old lady who swallowed the fly ended up with horse-sized problems.

Except we don't need to replace those sulfur dioxide emissions with more sulfur dioxide; Salt water misted into the air has the same effect, while being pretty unlikely to harm anything.

Even that will produce halogens and has the potential to change rain patterns.

Re: Northern summer was hottest on record by a significant margin

#86

Post by vuln »

TomK32 wrote: post #60
vuln wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blowing up Nord Stream in the spring probably wasn’t a good idea for the environment. But hey at least we’re sticking it to the fascist Russians. /s

Having it operational and delivering gas for decades to come would have been worse for the environment. Germany is still a bit tumbling but definitely will move from gas and oil to other means of heating.

The immediate environmental impact of a destructive act can be catastrophic, endangering ecosystems and human lives. While the long-term use of fossil fuels is indeed concerning, abrupt disruption isn't the answer. Instead, we should be pushing for a gradual, sustainable transition to cleaner energy sources. It's about finding a balance without resorting to extreme measures.

Re: Northern summer was hottest on record by a significant margin

#87

Post by mrguyorama »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #85
mrguyorama wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except we don't need to replace those sulfur dioxide emissions with more sulfur dioxide; Salt water misted into the air has the same effect, while being pretty unlikely to harm anything.

Even that will produce halogens and has the potential to change rain patterns.

That's why you do it on offshore platforms, such that the water and salt and anything else simply return to the ocean.

The spraying platform would constantly be growing salt all over it, and that's not a fun thing to maintain though.

Re: Northern summer was hottest on record by a significant margin

#88

Post by akitzmiller »

Somebody mentioned this in a reply, but it deserves to be a top level comment. A good chunk of this year's unusual heat may be attributable to a reduction in SO2 emissions from shipping. Article cites other factors as well, but this implies that 2023 is the new normal.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-how-low-sulphur-shippin...

Re: Northern summer was hottest on record by a significant margin

#89

Post by vuln »

t_tsonev wrote: post #82
Filligree wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they're doing well at moving to coal.

Stop spreading FUD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Germany

That Wikipedia stat is over 3 years ago 2020. What’s it look like now?

Re: Northern summer was hottest on record by a significant margin

#90

Post by bgirard »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #7
tejohnso wrote: post #4

> Burgess said the summer had been one of tumbling records and it would only get worse if the world continues to burn planet-heating fossil fuels. It would get worse even if we stopped burning fossil fuels immediately. Because of lag effects, tipping points, and masking.

The argument to immediately stop burning fossil fuels is a radical position which few take seriously. But you seem to be arguing that it'd be pointless in the same way that pressing the break in the immediate moment before a car accident is futile. Sure it might not help a lot, but I'd argue it's still the right call and will rarely make the situation worse.

It's not a great analogy. The possible downsides to breaking before a car are slim. The downside to immediately stopping burning fossil fuels are huge including disrupting the global economy, life critical heating/cooling in cold/warm climates and basically modern life globally.

We could barely lock down for a pandemic. Imagine telling someone (or entire winter cities) they will likely freeze to death today to reduce emissions.

That is not comparable to hitting the breaks to lessen a crash.

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