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Sexism in Tech. Or: CloudMine pulls its sponsorship of API Jam.

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81–90 of 139 posts

Re: Sexism in Tech. Or: CloudMine pulls its sponsorship of API Jam.

#81

Othering . Get that word into your head, and keep it there. Othering . Othering is when you make someone feel as if they don't belong in a community, that they're different from other people there. Making stupid (racist) Asian jokes about the only Chinese-American member of your team. Writing flyers that assume that your entire audience consists of a certain type of heterosexual man. Even something small, like consta…

Take what I say with a few grains of salt - I'm one of those weirdos whose always tried to be at least a little bit different - to avoid ever becoming wholly "in". But, in my experience, othering isn't going to drive people away, not in any significant numbers. Sure, it can make people feel uncomfortable in the wrong context, and cause social tension, but so can criticizing ideas, or mocking political parties. What you call "othering" can just as often help people feel that they /do/ fit in, by demonstrating that what makes them "different" does not in fact make a difference to anyone else.

Look at it this way: differences do exist, and they're going to be acknowledged, even if they're totally inconsequential. Artificially suppressing occasional acknowledgment of differences - race, height, gender, religion, and sexual orientation being, I think, the "big five" - isn't going to do anyone any good. I would make the case that jokes about these are in fact important in any "accepting" (or whatever buzzword we're using today) culture, and that failing to ever acknowledge them in "polite conversation" only teaches that these differences are a bad thing. Which isn't the right message.

I think you're probably (P =~ 70%) talking about the qualitatively different phenomenon in which a single member is repeatedly singled out for othering on a daily basis - but it's easy to confuse the two, especially when focusing on something as subjective as language and social interactions. However, the latter (let's call it "bigotry", shall we) tends to come with other symptoms that do more direct harm - let's address them directly.

Re: Sexism in Tech. Or: CloudMine pulls its sponsorship of API Jam.

#82

I wouldn't have written this either and it is off-putting, but I always feel funny about criticizing the objectification of a group of women when they themselves accepted it. It feels paternalistic.

I don't understand. Which women were accepting it? Most of today's backlash came from women who code, which is the group being objectified.

Re: Sexism in Tech. Or: CloudMine pulls its sponsorship of API Jam.

#83

Othering . Get that word into your head, and keep it there. Othering . Othering is when you make someone feel as if they don't belong in a community, that they're different from other people there. Making stupid (racist) Asian jokes about the only Chinese-American member of your team. Writing flyers that assume that your entire audience consists of a certain type of heterosexual man. Even something small, like consta…

No. I have no need of your specialized political vocabulary. The literature of our culture are way ahead of you: "Also thou shalt not oppress a stranger: for ye know the heart of a stranger, seeing ye were strangers in the land of Egypt." Exodus 23:9

Re: Sexism in Tech. Or: CloudMine pulls its sponsorship of API Jam.

#84
post #69

Ugh... the reactions to these idiotic, misogynistic statements always feel overblown. Yes, sexism is a pretty big problem in the industry (and adjacent ones). But you're not going to fix it by griping about a horny 20-something saying something stupid about women (surprise!). You're not even going to help. You're just going to walk away with a "there I helped" endorphin rush and go back to not really caring for the v…

Fixing stupid mistakes like this is a lot more straight-forward than figuring out how to encourage young girls to participate in science - it's a completely different order of complexity and the former can be acted upon immediately and effectively whilst the latter cannot. It's the difference between having a recycling bin in your house and changing the idealization of suburbia and car-culture in North America.

It does help. From the perspective of a female, this sort of "overblown" reaction makes it clear that this sort of mentality is not considered acceptable by the community as a whole. If it was a case of people shrugging it off, if this sort of thing could occur without anyone batting an eyelash... I'd have a lot more second-thoughts about my career path for one, and I'd have turned away from the start-up community on top of that.

Re: Sexism in Tech. Or: CloudMine pulls its sponsorship of API Jam.

#86
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's some reading for you, Mr / Ms Perfect. http://www.amazon.com/The-Crucible-Arthur-Miller/dp/01424373...

I’m not perfect. I’m all for second chances. And they will get them, no doubt. I’m not for banning them from society or anything like that.

Are you quite sure you know what you wrote?

"Sometimes there are no second chances. Sometimes you should get it right the first time. Especially when it comes to something as obvious as this. "Sorry, but this is not some subtle mistake."

Re: Sexism in Tech. Or: CloudMine pulls its sponsorship of API Jam.

#87
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not perfect. I’m all for second chances. And they will get them, no doubt. I’m not for banning them from society or anything like that.

Are you quite sure you know what you wrote? "Sometimes there are no second chances. Sometimes you should get it right the first time. Especially when it comes to something as obvious as this. "Sorry, but this is not some subtle mistake."

Yes, sometimes there are situation where you screw up an interview and don’t get the job. Sometimes there are situation where you write sexist crap and lose your sponsors. That happens.

Whoever made this will get a second chance, only not in this instance. Simple as that. It’s a mild punishment for being sexist. So what. Deserved.

Re: Sexism in Tech. Or: CloudMine pulls its sponsorship of API Jam.

#88
post #43
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here's the point though: Getting super worked up about this idiocy and saying "THIS is why there are few women in tech", as some tweeters did, is not constructive either and trivializes the problem of women (and minorities) in tech. Interesting perspective. Could you please elaborate?

Sure: Let's focus on the women in tech problem, leaving aside minorities, which has also been previously discussed on HN (e.g. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3169475 ). This was discussed many times on HN in the context of sexist language, booth babes in conferences, etc. My thoughts on the subject are: 1) There is a gender imbalance in the tech community, regardless of how you slice it (e.g. founders, developer…

The worst part of that last article you linked is that the only time they acknowledge a possible female role is in the "Mediocre Man" stereotype: "Don’t let the name fool you; there are female varieties of Mediocre Man too. And he or she always takes longer to produce worse code than anyone else on the team."

Re: Sexism in Tech. Or: CloudMine pulls its sponsorship of API Jam.

#89

God. This stuff is beyond tacky. It's not just insulting for females but it reminds other LGBT geeks that they're outliers. Who cares whether a man or woman is delivering my drink? Like seriously, I'm gay and I don't think I've ever thought "Damn, a woman delivered my drink instead of a dude".

I am a man and feel insulted, the implication that I would go to a hackday to ogle at women is insulting to me. Not all heterosexual males that are interested by such events are undersexed hormone bombs that care more about women than about actually building cool stuff. I find this sort of behavior insulting to our trade.

What's more, for many of us it's insulting to people we love – friends, colleagues or family. (My mum's seriously twice the programmer I'll ever be, for the record.)

Re: Sexism in Tech. Or: CloudMine pulls its sponsorship of API Jam.

#90

I wouldn't have written this either and it is off-putting, but I always feel funny about criticizing the objectification of a group of women when they themselves accepted it. It feels paternalistic.

I don't understand. Which women were accepting it? Most of today's backlash came from women who code, which is the group being objectified.

The ones hired to provide the beers?
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