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‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

fortune.com

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Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#81

Post by darth_avocado »

duskwuff wrote: post #62
darth_avocado wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s typical of people who don’t live in SF to completely downplay the situation there as “propaganda” because it puts their favorite tribe under scrutiny. Stores can be shut down in one place for a specific reason while another place for a completely different reason. Nordstrom is located in probably the most expensive real estate in San Francisco, while the conditions just outside the stores are deteriorating. If t…

> San Jose is also as expensive as San Francisco in terms of real estate? Maybe for residential real estate. I have a hard time imagining that it's anywhere close to the same in the commercial sector; there's dramatically more supply in SJ.

SF Average retail rent /sqft: $38.20

https://www.crexi.com/insights/the-san-francisco-commercial-...

San Jose Average retail rent /sqft: $39.60

https://www.crexi.com/insights/the-san-jose-commercial-real-...

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#82

Post by ethanbond »

retrocryptid wrote: post #75
ethanbond wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ain't gotta be either-or. Give everyone UBI and enforce the daylights out of crime.

I dunno. Doing basic due-diligence level investigation of law enforcement policy and effectiveness first is a good idea. I'm a fan of UBI, but you may also want to do a web search or two before saying UBI should be 'U'.

Both fair points, and realistically I’m not even really a fan of UBI given that it’ll be captured by landlords as increased rent. The real point I’m making is that these things are not actually at odds and they shouldn’t be portrayed as such.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#83

Post by JackFr »

retrocryptid wrote: post #53
tedajax wrote: post #23

Another store lying about "crime" being the reason they're closing.

Also... I'm pretty sure seattle is their flagship store. Not sure why people are saying it's the tiny store in SF. Up in seattle talk about Nordstrom is how they're sort of failing to effectively compete in the modern retail environment (amazon, dollar tree, walmart, costco, etc.) I always thought their niche was high touch service / moderately high price, bit peeps around town have mentioned they've been trying new…

Yea, Nordstrom is supposed to be their high-touch high end, and Nordstrom Rack is supposed to still be high quality, but less high-touch. And they're trying to figure out the right mix without diluting brand.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#84

Post by ribosometronome »

RC_ITR wrote: post #9
lusus_naturae wrote: post #3

I fail to understand how this is different from organized rings of train robbers in the old, old west. Maybe we need modern day cowboys now (per my recollection, cowboys played both sides of the law)? Most likely we'll have security drones, like Boston Dynamics's robot dog. Edit to say that having people hounded by security drones sounds like a terrible state of affairs. Having businesses robbed by organized gangs do…

The question you should be asking is if this is actually a shoplifting problem vs. a massive decline in SF’s willingness to shop in person. I sure don’t know anyone who talked about going to the downtown Nordstrom to buy anything. And I don’t think the root cause was shoplifting fears. This is an important question because while a scapegoat feels nice (they always do - look at the glee people are inserting into their…

>And I don’t think the root cause was shoplifting fears.

It sure seems like a strange coincidence that all the downtown shutdowns happened around the same time that hundreds of thousands of people weren't forced into the area 5x a week by their job and the city lost over 50k in population, likely high earning workers who could now work remote elsewhere.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#85

Post by retrocryptid »

nradov wrote: post #79
duskwuff wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> per my recollection, cowboys played both sides of the law Cowboys were animal herders, not police officers. You're probably thinking of the romanticized "Lone Ranger" image of the cowboy as seen in Western movies. This is almost entirely fictitious.

Not entirely fictitious. Cowboys and ranch hands at times also worked as mercenaries or deputized law enforcers in 19th-century organized conflicts not unlike the urban gang wars we occasionally see today. The best known example is probably the Lincoln County War, which involved 15 murders and probably a few hundred participants at various levels.

San Francisco, that we'll known expanse of American western wilderness is completely without infrastructure, which is why we routinely have battles between native americans and settlers on the Haight. And why there are routine gunfights between ranchers and farmers in North Beach.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#86

Post by rcme »

johnny99k wrote: post #51
rcme wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick Google search seems to suggest there are plenty of grocery stores within San Francisco.

I said starting to resemble. I referenced a Walgreens, so obviously they still have stores.

If SF was starting to resemble a place without grocery stores, I would expect few grocery stores. Instead I found hundreds.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#87

Post by dee-bee »

kernal wrote: post #16

Why would any company operate a store in San Francisco when there are no deterrents to shoplifting and the criminals aren't even prosecuted? Additionally, this is not isolated to San Francisco as Oakland and Los Angeles are just as bad if not worse. California reaps what it sows.

Same as anywhere: write off theft and make bank off the rich people. The idea that SF is somehow unique is asinine. If i were to guess they want the public to foot the bill for cops to just shoot shoplifters.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#88

Post by retrocryptid »

ethanbond wrote: post #82
retrocryptid wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno. Doing basic due-diligence level investigation of law enforcement policy and effectiveness first is a good idea. I'm a fan of UBI, but you may also want to do a web search or two before saying UBI should be 'U'.

Both fair points, and realistically I’m not even really a fan of UBI given that it’ll be captured by landlords as increased rent. The real point I’m making is that these things are not actually at odds and they shouldn’t be portrayed as such.

Sure. I'd buy that.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#89

Post by duskwuff »

darth_avocado wrote: post #81
duskwuff wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> San Jose is also as expensive as San Francisco in terms of real estate? Maybe for residential real estate. I have a hard time imagining that it's anywhere close to the same in the commercial sector; there's dramatically more supply in SJ.

SF Average retail rent /sqft: $38.20 https://www.crexi.com/insights/the-san-francisco-commercial-... San Jose Average retail rent /sqft: $39.60 https://www.crexi.com/insights/the-san-jose-commercial-real-...

The Crexi market overview for San Jose appears to extend far beyond San Jose and well into the Peninsula:

> Major San Jose/Santa Clara County employers include Google, Apple, Facebook, the County of Santa Clara, and Stanford University.

Mountain View and Palo Alto are both seeing a lot of demand for office space from Google and Facebook, respectively, and I suspect that's driving up the average. San Jose itself isn't seeing so much of that.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#90

Post by brk »

QuercusMax wrote: post #7
Bostonian wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Part of the issue is that articles like this one tend to conflate individual poor people shoplifting small items with these organized gangs. These gangs aren't shoplifters, and calling them such is extremely misleading.

Leaving the store with items you didn't pay for is theft on any level, and bad for business.
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