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Bring back the 40-hour work week

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Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#81

Post by rmc »

jbarham wrote: post #48
jdietrich wrote: post #36

I keep reading these sort of articles and wondering why the American people seem so opposed to basic employment law. Here in Socialist Yurop, the Working Time Directive means that no employer can compel an employee to work for longer than 48 hours per week. All workers are entitled to a legal minimum of 5.6 weeks of paid holiday. You all seem to agree that you work too long and don't get enough holiday. I've never on…

Given that e.g. the unemployment rate in Spain is 23% [1] and Greece is bankrupt, it seems a little quixotic to be highlighting European entitlements for workers, when the more pressing problem is obviously the huge numbers of people who are not working and cannot find work and to whom those entitlements are a bad joke. Indeed, some people might even posit a link between entitlements and the current economic mess in…

The countries in Europe (Germany, France) that are bailing out other countries (e.g. Ireland, Portugal), are the ones with long holidays bailing out the countries with short holidays.

Ireland is a great example of bare minimum employee law to meet EU standards, and light touch regulation that needs to be bailed out by 35½ hr-a-week France.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#82

Post by rmc »

kibwen wrote: post #54
jdietrich wrote: post #36

I keep reading these sort of articles and wondering why the American people seem so opposed to basic employment law. Here in Socialist Yurop, the Working Time Directive means that no employer can compel an employee to work for longer than 48 hours per week. All workers are entitled to a legal minimum of 5.6 weeks of paid holiday. You all seem to agree that you work too long and don't get enough holiday. I've never on…

"All workers are entitled to a legal minimum of 5.6 weeks of paid holiday." Heh, at my current job I won't be eligible for paid holiday until eighteen months after my date of initial employment, at which point I will receive five days of paid holiday for one year, and then ten days of paid holiday for the next four years. That's a pretty stark difference, I'd say. Is Europe hiring software developers?

Is Europe hiring software developers?

Yes. Like the USA, there is a shortage of developers.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#83

Post by functionoid »

rmc wrote: post #81
jbarham wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that e.g. the unemployment rate in Spain is 23% [1] and Greece is bankrupt, it seems a little quixotic to be highlighting European entitlements for workers, when the more pressing problem is obviously the huge numbers of people who are not working and cannot find work and to whom those entitlements are a bad joke. Indeed, some people might even posit a link between entitlements and the current economic mess in…

The countries in Europe (Germany, France) that are bailing out other countries (e.g. Ireland, Portugal), are the ones with long holidays bailing out the countries with short holidays. Ireland is a great example of bare minimum employee law to meet EU standards, and light touch regulation that needs to be bailed out by 35½ hr-a-week France.

I've heard from real people interviews why they do not work long or hard in France. They officially have one month of vacation more than the working class in US. The reason people told is they think tomorrow is not going to be better than today so why work?

And they themselves find it depressing which they accepted in the interviews.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#84

Post by functionoid »

If it bothers someone to work extra they should not be doing that work. Because it means you are doing something you do not love. I do not mean to say you have to slave for 80 hours week but let's be honest when you want to create something you have to dig down and put efforts more than others that could mean working smart and putting more effort than others.

This just does not apply to developers it is same at wall street. Those who want to be at the top of their game are not there for money only they take satisfaction in their achievements and achieving goals.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#85

Post by danmaz74 »

marvin wrote: post #73
danmaz74 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that this is in part because in the software industry we feel much stronger ownership of our projects than in most other jobs... for example, a couple of years ago I put a lot of (unpaid) overtime without being forced at all, just because I wanted the project to succeed and there was no other way to achieve success than for me to work on it myself (even if in theory I was just the project manager and sales en…

Yes, the ownership and pride aspect is probably a big part of it. I'd guess you can see the same thing with craftsmen. Regardless though, something feels very wrong about working very hard on something that can provide a huge monetary gain for your superiors, with the very real risk that you might not get anything in return. I operate (and have always operated, due to the horror stories I've heard) the same way you s…

In the end, I guess that it all depends on who your superiors are. Before this episode I worked with other people, and my extra effort was rewarded - nothing spectacular, but I both got a monetary compensation, and the possibility to pursue a project of my own proposal.

With my current manager it took me some time to understand that his promises were written on water. Add to that a daughter, a mortgage and the crisis, and he probably felt it safe enough to screw me. I hope to prove him wrong soon enough ;)

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#86

Post by rte5434 »

rmc wrote: post #81
jbarham wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that e.g. the unemployment rate in Spain is 23% [1] and Greece is bankrupt, it seems a little quixotic to be highlighting European entitlements for workers, when the more pressing problem is obviously the huge numbers of people who are not working and cannot find work and to whom those entitlements are a bad joke. Indeed, some people might even posit a link between entitlements and the current economic mess in…

The countries in Europe (Germany, France) that are bailing out other countries (e.g. Ireland, Portugal), are the ones with long holidays bailing out the countries with short holidays. Ireland is a great example of bare minimum employee law to meet EU standards, and light touch regulation that needs to be bailed out by 35½ hr-a-week France.

I love how you conveniently leave out Greece.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#87

Post by dripton »

kibwen wrote: post #54
jdietrich wrote: post #36

I keep reading these sort of articles and wondering why the American people seem so opposed to basic employment law. Here in Socialist Yurop, the Working Time Directive means that no employer can compel an employee to work for longer than 48 hours per week. All workers are entitled to a legal minimum of 5.6 weeks of paid holiday. You all seem to agree that you work too long and don't get enough holiday. I've never on…

"All workers are entitled to a legal minimum of 5.6 weeks of paid holiday." Heh, at my current job I won't be eligible for paid holiday until eighteen months after my date of initial employment, at which point I will receive five days of paid holiday for one year, and then ten days of paid holiday for the next four years. That's a pretty stark difference, I'd say. Is Europe hiring software developers?

I'm a programmer in the US, and I get 4 weeks paid vacation plus 2 weeks paid sick leave plus 10 paid holidays.

At my previous job I got 4 weeks vacation (it would have gone up to 5 weeks after 4 years) plus (I forget how much) paid sick leave plus 6 paid holidays.

At the one before that I got 4 weeks vacation plus unlimited (within reason) paid sick leave plus 10 paid holidays.

In other words, you don't need to move to Europe. You just need to find a better job.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#88

Post by functionoid »

rte5434 wrote: post #86
rmc wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The countries in Europe (Germany, France) that are bailing out other countries (e.g. Ireland, Portugal), are the ones with long holidays bailing out the countries with short holidays. Ireland is a great example of bare minimum employee law to meet EU standards, and light touch regulation that needs to be bailed out by 35½ hr-a-week France.

I love how you conveniently leave out Greece.

Is Greece any different, bloated government, high unemployment, high government salaries and where did it go? Default on its financial obligations. You would know that if you were aware of what is happening but seems you don't.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#89

Post by icandoitbetter »

rte5434 wrote: post #86
rmc wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The countries in Europe (Germany, France) that are bailing out other countries (e.g. Ireland, Portugal), are the ones with long holidays bailing out the countries with short holidays. Ireland is a great example of bare minimum employee law to meet EU standards, and light touch regulation that needs to be bailed out by 35½ hr-a-week France.

I love how you conveniently leave out Greece.

Greeks work more hours than Germans [1] (in fact they're the 2nd hardest working people in the world according to an 2008 OECD study) and have shorter holidays (23 vs 30 days) [2].

[1] http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/12/euro...

[2] http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,763618,00....

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#90

Post by functionoid »

icandoitbetter wrote: post #89
rte5434 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how you conveniently leave out Greece.

Greeks work more hours than Germans [1] (in fact they're the 2nd hardest working people in the world according to an 2008 OECD study) and have shorter holidays (23 vs 30 days) [2]. [1] http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/12/euro... [2] http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,763618,00....

With 20% unemployment not sure how people are going to work.

Just so you know the underlying theme at France and Greece. Intellectual people in France know that their number of work days are not sustainable but as of now if government tries to make a change, they will not survive the election because people have taken these holidays as their right. So they cannot make the change even if they want to.

Greece has the similar socialism problem of big government, high government salaries and unrestrained spending no doubt they have high unemployment.

We are headed in that direction under current administration where government is growing without bounds and we have unemployment rate of almost 9%.

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