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Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

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Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#81

Post by macinjosh »

coldtea wrote: post #60
BaseballPhysics wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is such a weird American fixation. Here, take my money and hand me my burger and receipt, there's no need for a conversation or a fake smile. You don't care how my day is going, I don't really care about yours. Let's keep this transaction professional and solely focused on this exchange of money for burger. As a Canadian cousin over here, if you can't tell the difference between a smile/a polite "Hi, how can I…

> Is there something "weird" about that? No, absolutely not, and you can put down the superiority complex. There is something weird though. Getting service from those minimum wage workers is not enough: people also demand their fake pleasure to serve and sympathy.

At what income level does one need to start treating the customer, that is enabling one to have a job, like a real human being?

Why does one's income level dictate how they treat others? I was always told treat others how you would like to be treated.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#82

Post by XTHK »

game_the0ry wrote: post #70

The lengths that American businesses go to avoid the cost of labor is beyond stupid. Henry Ford paid his employees well, bc he treated his employees as an investment, not as a line-item cost on an excel spreadsheet, and new that higher wages would mean a more prosperous middle class that would buy more model Ts. [1] The US economy has become extractive in nature - extracting as much value from the resources available…

If Henry Ford really believed all that, then why was he such a union-buster?

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#83

Post by BaseballPhysics »

Zircom wrote: post #74
BaseballPhysics wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is such a weird American fixation. Here, take my money and hand me my burger and receipt, there's no need for a conversation or a fake smile. You don't care how my day is going, I don't really care about yours. Let's keep this transaction professional and solely focused on this exchange of money for burger. As a Canadian cousin over here, if you can't tell the difference between a smile/a polite "Hi, how can I…

>As a Canadian cousin over here, if you can't tell the difference between a smile/a polite "Hi, how can I help you?"/a "have a nice day", and an actual conversation involving smalltalk, then you clearly don't know about what you're criticising. That's literally his point, the whole friendly-service-with-a-smile thing is forced on them by their managers/corporate, it's not from a sincere desire to have an actual conve…

> That's literally his point, the whole friendly-service-with-a-smile thing is forced on them by their managers/corporate,

Courtesy with customers is forced on them? My god!

The next thing you'll tell me they're expected not to curse at their co-workers, too! What kind of world is this?!

> it's not from a sincere desire to have an actual conversation with customers.

Once again, and as I already said in the very text you quoted, no one is expecting a "conversation". Maybe you just misunderstood my point? I admit I was being a bit circuitous, there.

> Talk about irony, sitting here talking about a superiority complex while defending requiring that kind of stuff of "lowly" service industry workers.

I never mentioned anything about their being "lowly", and I'd appreciate you not insinuating such things about me. It's a veiled insult and it's unwarranted and unnecessary.

See, courtesy. It's a thing, both in the real world and online.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#84

Post by dunham »

dragonwriter wrote: post #52
tekla wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, UPS fucking sucks though. Amazon drivers make a attempt to hide packages, UPS tosses it 10 feet over the gate and mark it delivered in person.

> Amazon drivers make a attempt to hide packages, UPS tosses it 10 feet over the gate and mark it delivered in person. The only driver I've actually caught throwing a fragile, expensive package was an Amazon driver, but I’m going to guess that the variation between different individual drivers and teams (and contracted firms, in Amazon’s case) is probably bigger than that between which big co they are delivering for…

It was a FedEx driver for us. Eventually they moved on to another route or job, but the guy was throwing packages up over a fence onto the porch and kept breaking things.

And DHL doesn't bother walking up to the porch, just leaves things on the steps out by the street.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#85

Post by venv »

jvmfjvfjvf wrote: post #30
tyree731 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would Amazon drivers unionizing cause Amazon to offshore drivers? If Amazon drivers unionizing would cause Amazon to eliminate drivers, does that suggest unions lack strength, or that unions have strength that Amazon fears?

Amazon drivers unionizing would cause Amazon to hire FedEx or DHL. Unions don't have a monopoly on drivers.

And would the drivers be paid more or less (and what of other conditions)?

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#86

Post by altairprime »

bluedino wrote: post #12

I'm always amazed at the stark differences between UPS drivers, and Amazon drivers. UPS trucks are always clean. They follow the rules of the road. The drivers wear neat uniforms, they walk on the sidewalks, they're polite, they're just professionals held to a higher standard. Then there are Amazon drivers. They park blocking half the road, music blasting, the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a mont…

I regularly hear music in UPS vans, and they always seem to be happy that they have music. Their vans are dirt brown which does notably reduce the cleaning burden.y apartment complex regularly has one road out front blocked all day long by private delivery cars, commercial delivery drivers of every sort, police cars, and people double-parked to use the ATM. UPS and Amazon show up at different times, and stay for the same length of time.

However, you’re still seeing something valid, but I want to call it out plainly: Amazon contracts delivery to the lowest bidder in each region, exactly the same as FedEx Ground (formerly RPS) does. The variability you describe in Amazon drivers and vans stems directly from Amazon trying to be “hands off” enough to not get them all labeled employees; whereas UPS just employs them, with a resulting degree of consistency in appearances and behavior that Amazon cannot match.

But .. music? They all listen to music.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#87

Post by vladvasiliu »

kova12 wrote: post #58
Zigurd wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish this were not true, but on multiple deliveries I have had UPS falsify a delivery attempt and status. Amazon drivers have never done that. This has to be a systemic problem with UPS selling service level agreements they can't actually meet. There is no way that UPS's tracking system don't know this is happening.

Just another day UPS was supposed to deliver an item with signature. I needed the item. I was waiting for driver, but even if I wasn't, my whole family was at home. Looked outside, bam! UPS label "sorry we missed you" on the door.

Well, at least you got the notice.

I was in the same situation at my parents' house. Three people in the house, loud doorbell, my mom doing whatever in the garden. UPS says no-one was home and they left a notice. Didn't leave anything.

And unless they had an electric truck or something similarly quiet, they didn't even drive down the street.

To the other commenter's point up the thread, I've never had such an experience with deliveries made by Amazon.

I live in an apartment, and if I have a bigger item that won't fit in the mailbox, only Amazon will call me up to see if they can deliver it in hand. They usually call anyway instead of defaulting to the mailbox, but not always. Other delivery services will never call, just leave a slip in the mailbox, if that.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#88

Post by wpietri »

epivosism wrote: post #61
wpietri wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing shows the power of capitalist monopolies more than the lengths unions go to fight them. Oh wait You say this as if it's some clever proof, but I'd say it's literally correct. It's why all sorts of people in all sorts of countries fight capitalist monopolies. And, I should add, for all sorts of reasons. I believe strongly in the power of markets. They're incredible optimization machines. Which is why I'm als…

Yeah I was saying that the original claim was self-contradictory since if you use "resistance exists" as a proof that something is good, then you've already admitted that anti-unionism is good too, since it's also strongly resisted.

Rewriting a comment after somebody has already responded is very rude. Now your comment is differently wrong, but I'm sure not going to bother with it or you given that you may just keep rewriting the thing I'm responding to.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#89

Post by legitster »

game_the0ry wrote: post #70

The lengths that American businesses go to avoid the cost of labor is beyond stupid. Henry Ford paid his employees well, bc he treated his employees as an investment, not as a line-item cost on an excel spreadsheet, and new that higher wages would mean a more prosperous middle class that would buy more model Ts. [1] The US economy has become extractive in nature - extracting as much value from the resources available…

Ford's famous pay was actually tied to a crazy and intrusive set of requirements that employees were to adhere to. Most employees were not part of the program.

To the extent that Ford helped propel the middle class, it was his ruthless and often illogical chase to the lowest possible cost.

Re: Amazon doesn't 'employ' drivers, but hired firms to prevent them from unionizing

#90

Post by rootusrootus »

josefresco wrote: post #53
bluedino wrote: post #12

I'm always amazed at the stark differences between UPS drivers, and Amazon drivers. UPS trucks are always clean. They follow the rules of the road. The drivers wear neat uniforms, they walk on the sidewalks, they're polite, they're just professionals held to a higher standard. Then there are Amazon drivers. They park blocking half the road, music blasting, the vans usually look like they haven't been washed in a mont…

"lazily toss a package on the porch and walk away" I tried to help an Amazon driver by taking the package from him at the edge of my driveway. He stopped me, told me he had to take a photo of it sitting on my property first. He was very serious about this. I doubt this behavior is from these contracted drivers unless the photo requirement is new and your experience is not.

Same here, just last week. He politely told me that he could hand it to me, but then I'd need to sign for it. If he put it on the front step, he could just take a picture.

I opted to just let him continue his normal routine. Undoubtedly faster than doing a one-off signature because I happened to be standing out in front of my house.

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