Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The unix69 keyboard layout: nerdy and nice

dotat.at

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 122 posts

Re: The unix69 keyboard layout: nerdy and nice

#81

Post by laurencerowe »

z0r wrote: post #73
coldpie wrote: post #17

I am continually baffled by how keyboard enthusiasts almost never have ergonomic layouts. If you care this much about typing, surely the first thing you do is get an ergo layout. The rectangle layout is really bad, people! How can you spend this much time and energy and money on keyboards, and keep using the awful rectangle layout?

I got a Unicomp model M with a trackball at the top right corner of the case and rubber dome keycaps (so I can use it at the office without annoying all my neighbors) and it's currently the longest running keyboard I've comfortably been able to use, for more than 7 years now. I had to use a gold touch 'tented' split keyboard for half a year when I was dealing with some sport induced wrist and hand issues, but otherwi…

I find the big advantage of the reduced layout is that it moves the mouse/trackpad closer, reducing strain on my arm as a reach between the two.

I like the magic keyboard because it requires little effort to actuate the key and makes it easy to switch up my working position as it is so similar to the laptop keyboard.

I wish Apple would offer a combined keyboard and trackpad for desktop use that was the same as their laptops. I find being able to switch hands on the trackpad reduces strain.

Re: The unix69 keyboard layout: nerdy and nice

#82

Post by FireBeyond »

bombcar wrote: post #21
coldpie wrote: post #17

I am continually baffled by how keyboard enthusiasts almost never have ergonomic layouts. If you care this much about typing, surely the first thing you do is get an ergo layout. The rectangle layout is really bad, people! How can you spend this much time and energy and money on keyboards, and keep using the awful rectangle layout?

Keyboard enthusiasts can never get carpal tunnel because they spend too much time switching keyboards to actually type .

All this stuff about oiling and dampers and such... reminds me of my favorite quote about audiophiles:

> Music lovers buy stereo systems to listen to their music.

> Audiophiles buy music to listen to their stereo systems.

Re: The unix69 keyboard layout: nerdy and nice

#84

Post by ivanjermakov »

jeppesen-io wrote: post #2

First glance I thought this was silly with left ctrl changed to fn But on closer look, I saw caps lock was changed to ctrl. Which is what I do on all my computers I hope the Framework ecosystem grows so we might someday see a keyboard like this for it

I use kmonad[1] to have QMK-like functionality on any keyboard.

https://github.com/kmonad/kmonad

Re: The unix69 keyboard layout: nerdy and nice

#85

Post by eviks »

sswezey wrote: post #65
quicklime wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also suffer from rheumatism, and I spent years (and many hundreds of dollars) trying out split keyboards before finding out that my problems had nothing to do with wrist positions. I'm now typing comfortably on a rectangular chiclet (Apple Magic) keyboard.

I tried some mechanical keyboards back in the day for the "benefits". I never got it and my hands would be strained from typing on the high travel, high resistance keys. The Apple Keyboard (I use the UK/English International) is so much easier on my hands. They're easy to find, well-supported and robust.

Have you tried to fix the basics with low travel low resistance keys?

Re: The unix69 keyboard layout: nerdy and nice

#86

Post by wesapien »

coldpie wrote: post #17

I am continually baffled by how keyboard enthusiasts almost never have ergonomic layouts. If you care this much about typing, surely the first thing you do is get an ergo layout. The rectangle layout is really bad, people! How can you spend this much time and energy and money on keyboards, and keep using the awful rectangle layout?

Just got myself a Glove80 with the linear Choc Pro Red switchtes (35gf). Glad I held off on other keyboards for this. It's so satisfying to type on. It's only been more than a couple of days and I already got the hand of it for the most part. Trying Coleman makes it even easier and I plan on being proficient on Coleman and qwerty.

Re: The unix69 keyboard layout: nerdy and nice

#87

Post by kstrauser »

colanderman wrote: post #42
coldpie wrote: post #17

I am continually baffled by how keyboard enthusiasts almost never have ergonomic layouts. If you care this much about typing, surely the first thing you do is get an ergo layout. The rectangle layout is really bad, people! How can you spend this much time and energy and money on keyboards, and keep using the awful rectangle layout?

The rectangle layout is only bad if you are a home-row typist. The problem with home-row typing is that your wrists are bent. It's possible to learn to type without bending your wrists. I am self-taught and have typed this way for three decades with no wrist issues due to keyboard use. My fingers rest naturally on "QWERF" and "JIOP". I actually cannot type on "ergo" keyboards due to the angles being wrong, and not be…

I played piano long before I learned to type, and it's natural for me to move my hands all over the place. I've never contorted my fingers the way "correct" typists do.

Re: The unix69 keyboard layout: nerdy and nice

#88

Post by kstrauser »

camgunz wrote: post #16
hyperhopper wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vim reasons I'm guessing

Maybe but I strongly recommend Ctrl-[ instead. Life changing.

I finally learned that trick when I spent a lot of time typing on an iPad Pro with a Smart Keyboard Folio. It doesn't have an escape key at all.

It bugged me terribly at first but I liked it once I was used to it.

Re: The unix69 keyboard layout: nerdy and nice

#89

Post by rgoulter »

tom_ wrote: post #72
manaskarekar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the world of ergo and/or split keyboards, which is quite fascinating, but rather expensive to `try one that best fits me`. (Ergodox EZ, Kineses advantage, OLKB splits and many more) There is also the Alice layout, which is an interesting step towards ergonomics on a traditional keyboard. I wish there was a keyboard club or something that let you try these out for a week or so.

Time for my regular rant. I've posted this in various forms over the years, with various introductions and tweaks to the wording, but the key part is always essentially the same:: > Every split keyboard with nice keyswitches has a different layout from every other, and most of them miss one or more of F keys, symmetrical meta keys, standard navigation cluster layout, volume buttons, and so on. Quite extraordinary, co…

> Every split keyboard with nice keyswitches has a different layout from every other, and most of them miss one or more of F keys, symmetrical meta keys, standard navigation cluster layout, volume buttons, and so on.

Those small split keyboards generally have layouts that are more coherent and well thought out than the MS Natural Ergonomic 4000.

The design features of standard keyboard layouts are hard to justify: the spacebar takes up the space of 6 or 7 keys; which means the thumbs are only able to use one key when the hands are on home row, and the pinkies get used for many keys. The hands inevitably need to move/stretch in order to use most keys. The rest of a standard keyboard layout is asymmetrical, and the asymmetrical row-stagger makes no ergonomic sense.

The small keyboards instead almost always have 2-3 (or more) keys for each thumb.

That alone makes it much easier for the keyboard to make use of keymap layers.

It's generally also common for such keyboard users to use Home Row modifier keys; where the Alt/Win/Ctrl/Shift keys are put underneath asdf (and jkl;) keys when held. -- This is much more ergonomic than having to use pinky fingers for these keys.

On those small split keyboards, the navigation keys, volume keys, F-keys are all within reach without having to move the hands from home row (and without having to stretch fingers).

Those small split keyboards do force a trade-off, though: the benefit of reduced hand movement / finger stretching comes at the cost of a more complex keyboard layout.

Re: The unix69 keyboard layout: nerdy and nice

#90

Post by shadowofneptune »

coldpie wrote: post #17

I am continually baffled by how keyboard enthusiasts almost never have ergonomic layouts. If you care this much about typing, surely the first thing you do is get an ergo layout. The rectangle layout is really bad, people! How can you spend this much time and energy and money on keyboards, and keep using the awful rectangle layout?

In my personal experience, you avoid repetitive stress injuries by shaking up how you type. Reaching for the mouse, moving where you hold your hands. It's the old way of teaching typing with a rigid posture that causes carpal tunnel, not the rectangle frame in itself.

Ergo layouts are nice in theory but they make it harder to touch type. The modern keyboard layout is an example of a standard that works: everyone can sit down at a keyboard and start typing, even if function keys are different here or there.

EDIT: Ah, of course I am just one singer in the chorus of self-taught typists responding.

Post reply on HN