Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging • Hacker News Board

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#81

Post by seizethecheese » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 7:24 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #19

mattzito wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article seems to hit that straight on: "The consequences of Measure 110’s shortcomings have fallen most heavily on Oregon’s drug users. In the two years after the law took effect, the number of annual overdoses in the state rose by 61 percent, compared with a 13 percent increase nationwide, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In neighboring Idaho and California, where drug possession rema…

That is a highly misleading discussion though. The existing rate in WV is quadruple that in Oregon. Oregon was up a bit on a low denominator. WV was down slightly on a ludicrous prior rate. Fails to mention that other states with similar trends compared to Oregon are Wyoming, Maine, and Texas. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm

misleading it what sense? The article is about the impact of a recent policy change.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#82

Post by dang » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 7:26 PM UTC

Thoeu388 wrote: post #9

> the first of its kind in any state, are now coming into view Lets hope Oregon will be shining beacon of inclusivity for all drug users, anywhere in US! We should not rush into any conslusions for at least 30 years!!!

We've banned this account for posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments.

Can you please not create accounts to break HN's rules with? It's not in your interest to vandalize this place, for the same reason one doesn't throw trash in a city park, or leave fires burning in dry forests, or pee in swimming pools: it destroys what makes the place worth visiting in the first place.

If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#83

Post by chefandy » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 7:26 PM UTC

vondur wrote: post #65

Demotooodo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a novelty right now. In Amsterdam when you go to a music festival you will not see a lot of pod heads. I was one of the few and I'm a German! Look at Portugals drug history. Legalization saved that country!

It looks like Portugal is having some serious issues with decriminalization. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/07/portugal-dru...

The problem here isn't with decriminalization-- it's with lack of commitment to what they originally replaced enforcement with. From that article:

"Experts argue that drug policy focused on jail time is still more harmful to society than decriminalization. While the slipping results here suggest the fragility of decriminalization’s benefits, they point to how funding and encouragement into rehabilitation programs have ebbed. The number of users being funneled into drug treatment in Portugal, for instance, has sharply fallen, going from a peak of 1,150 in 2015 to 352 in 2021, the most recent year available.

João Goulão — head of Portugal’s national institute on drug use and the architect of decriminalization — admitted to the local press in December that “what we have today no longer serves as an example to anyone.” Rather than fault the policy, however, he blames a lack of funding."

It was working great while they were committed to funding treatment programs and pushing users towards them.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#84

Post by treeman79 » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 7:26 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #28

kelnos wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that's exactly true. I do agree with you that some people will start using because they lose the fear of being caught, though I'm not convinced this is as large a problem as you might think it is. Either way, there are also undoubtedly people with substance abuse problems who are afraid to get help due to the possibility of incarceration. Removing that fear can lead to more people getting into treatment…

> though I'm not convinced this is as large a problem as you might think it is Several states have legalized marijuana, and surprise, marijuana usage is at an all-time high (no pun intended). People who would have never tried it before now do so because the stigma is gone, and it's trivial to get. This part is always lost on the "legalize everything" crowd. While marijuana might be relatively benign, other drugs are…

I have yet to meet a person. Whose personality didn’t completely changed after being on marijuana for a while.

Every single one of them said it didn’t affect them.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#85

Post by TylerE » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 7:27 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #54

Demotooodo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a novelty right now. In Amsterdam when you go to a music festival you will not see a lot of pod heads. I was one of the few and I'm a German! Look at Portugals drug history. Legalization saved that country!

> In Amsterdam when you go to a music festival you will not see a lot of pod heads I could be wrong, but I don't believe marijuana is as-legal in Amsterdam as it is in California for example. In CA, there's very few enforced restrictions of where you can get it and where you can use it. > Look at Portugals drug history. Legalization saved that country! It doesn't appear so[1]. It appears they are struggling with the…

Disagree. Much more societal harm comes from the supply side (cartels, street gangs) than users, and much of the harm for/from users goes away if prices adjust to what they actually cost to produce (a tiny fraction of street price), and if the products are lab tested for potency and purity.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#86

Post by rubyn00bie » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 7:27 PM UTC

j_walter wrote: post #13

kelnos wrote: post #5

https://archive.is/rznQr We've plainly seen over the past several decades that the War on Drugs is an abject failure. All it's done is increase incarceration rates (without solving the problems of drug use and addiction), and many people caught in the system are just drug users, not distributors/traffickers. This really doesn't help much of anything. > State leaders have acknowledged faults with the policy’s implemen…

Clearly they had the best of intentions, but Oregon's politicians are terrible at implementing anything properly. Open drug markets, increased property and retail thefts and a homeless population explosion are what happened...when They always claimed to follow other successful implementations like Portugal, but the law was no where near what they implemented as far as requiring treatment. Whats funny is the Governor…

Ted Wheeler is a piece of shit, pushing policies that are completely ineffective. He's more interested in illegally gassing non-violent protestors than fixing issues. The police here are well-funded and by-and-large don't do anything, bringing up the real question "why are we funding them?" A family member of mine had someone ARMED and going through a very obviously psychotic episode enter their house and it was over week before the police showed up to remove them. The damage to the house was outstanding, and my family member obviously couldn't stay there during it, but the Portland Police couldn't fucking be bothered. For a fucking week. It's absolutely insane we pay for police in my opinion.

The biggest issue in Portland that's been ignored since COVID started is that downtown Portland never recovered after the shutdown. It has nothing to do with safety, I know I live there, and it has everything to do with prices. The city is too expensive for what you get and what opportunities are here.

I'm no fan of Kotek, but truly Ted Wheeler is among the most shit mayors the city has ever known.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#87

Post by jeffbee » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 7:28 PM UTC

anon291 wrote: post #70

jeffbee wrote: post #4

This article has severe methodological errors. It fails to consider the Oregon stats in the context of other states. Oregon's change in OD rates have not been exceptional, and have more or less followed the trend of other states, while being greatly better compared to states like W. Virginia. As always, states that are "tough on drugs" get a free pass regardless of how bad their outcomes are, and states that legalize…

> while being greatly better compared to states like W. Virginia. Typical Oregon response comparing Oregon, a fairly rich state, with West Virginia, one of the poorest states. If you can't do better than a poor state with your high taxes and high median incomes... that's not a good reflection on the state. Yet, most Oregonians seem to get some satisfaction that they do better than Mississippi, Alabama, and West Virgi…

But see that is exactly what I am talking about. You cannot — cannot — attribute a change in overdose rate to state policy without examining and controlling for the factors that we know influence overdoses: personal income, homelessness, etc. This article completely fails to examine whether Oregon's changes can be due to a shift in the income among its population.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#88

Post by Herodotus38 » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 7:29 PM UTC

randerson wrote: post #73

sharperguy wrote: post #8

I always thought decriminalization was in some ways the worst of both worlds. On one hand, keeping the production and trade side illegal continues to perpetuate the underground culture and fund international cartels. Meanwhile their market base increases due to fewer people being afraid of being caught, the product quality is still completely unregulated. Users still need to stay embedded in an an unscrupulous underw…

I wonder: would be better or worse if states started giving out medical-grade Heroin to those who seek it? Perhaps with a prescription where one has to pick up a 1 day supply each day (less likely to OD) and the prescription gradually tapers off down to zero. It would put a dent in the illicit markets and reduce deaths of existing addicts, but could be too tempting for new people to try it out.

If you tried such a method people would probably be opposed to it because of concerns people would be tempted to obtain it and sell.

One would probably model it off of methadone clinics. In most clinics the methadone has to be taken by the person on site and witnessed to prevent issues of diversion. However a lot of places allow people to graduate to be able to pick up a multiple day supply after they have shown stability, etc…

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#89

Post by tenebrisalietum » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 7:30 PM UTC

randerson wrote: post #73

sharperguy wrote: post #8

I always thought decriminalization was in some ways the worst of both worlds. On one hand, keeping the production and trade side illegal continues to perpetuate the underground culture and fund international cartels. Meanwhile their market base increases due to fewer people being afraid of being caught, the product quality is still completely unregulated. Users still need to stay embedded in an an unscrupulous underw…

I wonder: would be better or worse if states started giving out medical-grade Heroin to those who seek it? Perhaps with a prescription where one has to pick up a 1 day supply each day (less likely to OD) and the prescription gradually tapers off down to zero. It would put a dent in the illicit markets and reduce deaths of existing addicts, but could be too tempting for new people to try it out.

To prevent new people from doing heroin, just have them search for "Kensington Philadelphia" on YouTube and watch 1 to 3 videos.

Re: Oregon decriminalized hard drugs – early results aren’t encouraging

#90

Post by treeman79 » Tue, Aug 01, 2023, 7:30 PM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #78

Alupis wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> though I'm not convinced this is as large a problem as you might think it is Several states have legalized marijuana, and surprise, marijuana usage is at an all-time high (no pun intended). People who would have never tried it before now do so because the stigma is gone, and it's trivial to get. This part is always lost on the "legalize everything" crowd. While marijuana might be relatively benign, other drugs are…

> drug use if you are part of the homeless population. Maybe. homeless are the main issue, rather than drugs? Like if I had to choose between regular cocaine habbit, and bein homeless, i'd rather be a cokehead.

Meet people that have have done a lot of drugs? Some can still function. Others, just can’t. Had an owner of a successful tech company see it fall apart because he couldn’t make decisions anymore.

Was a really nice guy, but by the end I might hire him to sweep the floors, but only with supervision. Not sure how he’s doing now, but I imagine he’ll be homeless by some point.

He enjoyed going to burning man a lot.