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Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

arxiv.org

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Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#81

Post by jacquesm »

tnecniv wrote: post #80
WillAdams wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most likely the peer review process will include replication.

Normally (at least in my field), that’s beyond the scope of peer review in the traditional sense. Peer review typically just involves review of just the material submitted to the journal (manuscript, data, maybe code depending on its size and complexity). Depending on the experiment, reproducing a result may require resources, equipment, or skills unavailable to the reviewer or that cannot be acquired in a reasonable…

That's true but if a reputable journal publishes this before that verification is in and it ends up being mistaken or even a hoax or fraud then their reputation will be dinged so with the stakes this high given the material and the visibility there is a fair chance that they will indeed wait for independent replication before committing to publishing it. But I don't see it happening during the peer review process itself, it will happen simply because another lab tries the same and gets lucky (or not, in which case the whole thing will blow over).

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#82

Post by tatrajim »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #78
ssabev wrote: post #74

We are so so back. Cannot wait to see the new era. Feeling real bad for the doomers

Huh? The linked paper abstract says failed to reproduce the result. And they're not the only ones: https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/claims-of-room-tempe... We'll see where we are in a couple weeks, but it's not looking good.

They're talking about a newer paper that provides some reason for optimism.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.16892

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#83

Post by harry8 »

Azrael3000 wrote: post #22
p-e-w wrote: post #17

> In addition, when a pressed Pb10-xCux(PO4)6O pellet is located on top of a commercial Nd2Fe14B magnet at room temperature, no repulsion could be felt and no magnetic levitation was observed either. So what about the video[1] that shows magnetic levitation occurring? Since the linked article was unable to reproduce this effect, it seems there are two possibilities: 1. The video is fake (which is really, really hard…

Apparently a new paper is supposed to come out from the original authors about the production method [0]. So it really is unclear whether everybody generates the same material. It's a shame that these papers were published before they were polished by the authors. [0] https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/claims-of-room-tempe...

>It's a shame that these papers were published before they were polished by the authors.

Saying nothing about these specific papers, in general I disagree strongly.

I find the peer review process to be extremely flawed. If you get a bunch of interest from experts in the field on the internet who comment and do work to understand, replicate and analyse (and without hiding behind fake-anonymity) that is a million times better in every dimension than anonymous "peer review." That is, it works better as a BS detector, it works better identifying issues in the data analysis, methodology and so on.

Anonymous peer review has been great compared to alternatives for hundreds of years, just now, our alternatives are frequently better than that.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#84

Post by fbdab103 »

p-e-w wrote: post #67
XorNot wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're claiming you have a room temperature superconductor, it would be more suspicious if you weren't claiming that. Because if LK99 works, then that's exactly what it is. It'll be material of the century.

Look at some of the most ground-breaking research papers in the history of science, such as the Watson/Crick DNA structure papers. They literally discovered the core of life itself, which is infinitely more important than a room-temperature superconductor. Yet they are incredibly modest about it, and don't waste a single sentence waxing philosophical about what all this means etc. In a similar vein, Andrew Wiles anno…

Nice to be modest after building off of Rosalind Franklin's unaccredited work.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#85

Post by floxy »

xorbax wrote: post #44
cyberax wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a material scientist, but I've spoken with folks who do advanced vapor deposition and thin-film synthesis for high-temperature superconductors (the ones that work at liquid-nitrogen temperature). It's basically witchcraft-adjacent, with so many variables that getting everything right is an art. That's why we're only now getting practical high-TC superconducting tape, even though the original materials were di…

You're producing a nanoscale material through macroscale processes It's not quite like asking somebody with a hammer and chisel to produce a microchip, but depending on how many processes and sensitive variables affect your chemical processes, it ain't far off. Maybes it's cooling rate. Maybe it's venting phosphorous gas. Maybe it's introducing ambient air. Maybe oxygen would be better. Maybe it should be faster. May…

Here is the exact ratio of carbon to hydrogen to oxygen to phosphorus to nitrogen. Mix them together and bake to get DNA.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#86

Post by SkyMarshal »

p-e-w wrote: post #17

> In addition, when a pressed Pb10-xCux(PO4)6O pellet is located on top of a commercial Nd2Fe14B magnet at room temperature, no repulsion could be felt and no magnetic levitation was observed either. So what about the video[1] that shows magnetic levitation occurring? Since the linked article was unable to reproduce this effect, it seems there are two possibilities: 1. The video is fake (which is really, really hard…

Sabine had a good take on that video today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjzL9cS3VW8&t=3m23s

"I lost hope for this discovery when I saw the video. This doesn't look like the Miessner effect to me."

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#87

Post by Maxion »

p-e-w wrote: post #54
peyton wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once the findings are published in a peer-reviewed journal, which Kim says is in the works, he will support anyone who wants to create and test LK-99 for themselves. [1] Sounds like that’s the plan once they’ve secured the Nature paper. [1]: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2384782-room-temperatur...

Sounds like they have it the wrong way round. Considering the uncertainty surrounding all of this, and the initial problems with replication, why would Nature publish this before it has been independently replicated? Not sure what they're worried about here. They already have priority, and if this replicates, every journal on Earth will be fighting over the privilege to publish it.

Because that’s the scientific method? It would be entirely infeasible for them to require someone else to test the sample.

I don’t think you’ve been in academia?

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#88

Post by nonrepeating »

p-e-w wrote: post #17

> In addition, when a pressed Pb10-xCux(PO4)6O pellet is located on top of a commercial Nd2Fe14B magnet at room temperature, no repulsion could be felt and no magnetic levitation was observed either. So what about the video[1] that shows magnetic levitation occurring? Since the linked article was unable to reproduce this effect, it seems there are two possibilities: 1. The video is fake (which is really, really hard…

The video doesn’t really prove anything. Non-superconducting diamagnetic can’t freely levitate due to a fundamental instability; they will always fall out of levitation (unless they’re spinning in a specific way). The superconductor in the video is in physical contact with the magnet beneath it, which is enough to resolve that unstable condition and keep the material steady.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#89

Post by lll-o-lll »

p-e-w wrote: post #56
lll-o-lll wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> synthesis process seems rather straightforward They’ve been working on this for years . To me it looks like whatever their process is, they don’t have something that’s repeatable. So maybe a couple of small samples are all there are after 1000s of attempts doing more or less the same thing .

So the groups trying to replicate right now are basically wasting their time?

> So the groups trying to replicate right now are basically wasting their time?

If a few dozen groups all try and replicate, and there is something to replicate, then odds are good someone will get lucky (birthday paradox and all that). Each individual group is definitely wasting their time, but the aggregate time spent may not be a waste.

Re: Semiconducting Transport in LK99 reproduction attempt

#90

Post by progman32 »

p-e-w wrote: post #67
XorNot wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're claiming you have a room temperature superconductor, it would be more suspicious if you weren't claiming that. Because if LK99 works, then that's exactly what it is. It'll be material of the century.

Look at some of the most ground-breaking research papers in the history of science, such as the Watson/Crick DNA structure papers. They literally discovered the core of life itself, which is infinitely more important than a room-temperature superconductor. Yet they are incredibly modest about it, and don't waste a single sentence waxing philosophical about what all this means etc. In a similar vein, Andrew Wiles anno…

I'm perfectly willing to forgive some hubris if their claims turn out to be accurate. Watson and Crick are not a great choice of role model for good character.
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