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I Paid Off $194k in Student Loans in Six Years. It Wasn’t Easy

benjaminlabaschin.com

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Re: I Paid Off $194k in Student Loans in Six Years. It Wasn’t Easy

#81

Post by lapcat »

zer8k wrote: post #4
EconoBen wrote: post #2

A few years ago, I set myself the goal of paying off all my student loans before I'm 30. I turn 30 in two months. And as of this month, I paid them off. All $194k of them... Obviously, this was a significant milestone for me. So, I took this opportunity to reflect on my journey so far. How I even came to owe that much money, how I overcame this obstacle, and what it all means to me.

Sounds like you made all the right choices. You spent $200k on a degree which awarded you a job that allowed you (with some expected struggle) to pay it off. Congratulations.

> Sounds like you made all the right choices.

That's not what the blog post says at all. The author talked about a bunch of bad choices.

> You spent $200k on a degree which awarded you a job that allowed you (with some expected struggle) to pay it off.

That's not what happened. In short, here is the series of events, that happened over a number of years:

1. Graduated with a double major in economics and environmental studies, plus $150K debt

2. Got a job pulling weeds at the Chicago Botanic Gardens for $12/hour

3. Got a job as an economic researcher at Arity for $50K/year

4. Taught himself data science and machine learning

5. Got a job in data science for >$100K/year

It was only 5 that allowed him to pay off his student loan debt. The undergrad degree did not directly lead to a well-paying job.

Re: I Paid Off $194k in Student Loans in Six Years. It Wasn’t Easy

#82

Post by lapcat »

somenameforme wrote: post #50
runako wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. This is the counterpoint to the "college is dead" crowd. OP is now 30 and has a career that will let him save/invest $200k every 6 years (before any future raises).

The "college is dead" crowd generally refer to people pursuing majors with no reasonable impact on their earnings, which is the overwhelming majority of people. Somebody who goes to school and decides to major in sociology because they find the classes fun, isn't going to be repaying their $200k of debt anytime soon.

The author got a degree in economics and environmental studies but ended up teaching himself data science and machine learning later, after leaving college, and getting a job in data science is what allowed him to pay off his student loan debt. So the blog post is basically contradicting what you said here.

Re: I Paid Off $194k in Student Loans in Six Years. It Wasn’t Easy

#83

Post by somenameforme »

runako wrote: post #61
somenameforme wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "college is dead" crowd generally refer to people pursuing majors with no reasonable impact on their earnings, which is the overwhelming majority of people. Somebody who goes to school and decides to major in sociology because they find the classes fun, isn't going to be repaying their $200k of debt anytime soon.

> pursuing majors with no reasonable impact on their earnings, which is the overwhelming majority of people The data don't bear this out. Over a career, people with college degrees earn more than those without. Until and unless this changes, people are making the right choice going to college. Caveats: it does need to be more widely communicated that getting into a college that costs $50k/year is a luxury good that n…

The raw educational attainment/income numbers suffer from severe selection bias. As but one example somebody with impaired intelligence is both probably not going to attend college, nor do economically well. But the fact he doesn't have a degree is obviously not the issue there. The question we want to ask ourselves is how would a person of at least average intelligence, motivated to work/learn, and so on do with vs without college.

So, for instance, how does a tradesman compare? The median income for somebody with a BS, employed full time, is $69k [1]. The median income for a plumber is $60k. [2] That's already pretty close, especially once you factor in 4 years of extra earnings vs 6 figures of debt. The BS may overcome the hole relatively late in their career, but again - it's close. However, there's a big catch: those numbers included STEM degrees. Remove STEM degrees and this isn't even close anymore.

I'm not arguing everybody should be a plumber, or anything of the sort. I am saying that college is a decision that should not be taken lightly, especially if somebody is not going to pursue STEM.

[1] - https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-educatio...

[2] - https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/plumbers...

Re: I Paid Off $194k in Student Loans in Six Years. It Wasn’t Easy

#84

Post by runako »

somenameforme wrote: post #83
runako wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pursuing majors with no reasonable impact on their earnings, which is the overwhelming majority of people The data don't bear this out. Over a career, people with college degrees earn more than those without. Until and unless this changes, people are making the right choice going to college. Caveats: it does need to be more widely communicated that getting into a college that costs $50k/year is a luxury good that n…

The raw educational attainment/income numbers suffer from severe selection bias. As but one example somebody with impaired intelligence is both probably not going to attend college, nor do economically well. But the fact he doesn't have a degree is obviously not the issue there. The question we want to ask ourselves is how would a person of at least average intelligence, motivated to work/learn, and so on do with vs…

> The median income for somebody with a BS, employed full time, is $69k [1]. The median income for a plumber is $60k.

I know you're not arguing for everyone to become a plumber, so you should state that the chart you cite shows that high school diploma holders have a median income of $42k, or $27k less annually than those with a BS. Your data is showing why people go to college.

(All of this is before one accounts for the ability of BS-holders to move up to the higher rungs on the chart; most professional degrees require an undergraduate degree. If a 28-year-old has a BS and gets tired of his profession, he can go to e.g. law school or whatever and potentially earn more as well.)

Re: I Paid Off $194k in Student Loans in Six Years. It Wasn’t Easy

#85

Post by somenameforme »

lapcat wrote: post #82
somenameforme wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "college is dead" crowd generally refer to people pursuing majors with no reasonable impact on their earnings, which is the overwhelming majority of people. Somebody who goes to school and decides to major in sociology because they find the classes fun, isn't going to be repaying their $200k of debt anytime soon.

The author got a degree in economics and environmental studies but ended up teaching himself data science and machine learning later, after leaving college, and getting a job in data science is what allowed him to pay off his student loan debt. So the blog post is basically contradicting what you said here.

I think the 'meat' in these sort of topics all comes down to trying our hardest to dismiss outliers, and seeing what can be "reasonably" expected. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Michael Dell, Larry Ellison, and a slew of others dropped out - and did okay. But of course that's a nonsensical argument for dropping out, because their outcomes were very atypical. Here too, high paying data science jobs is in no way a reasonable or normal career trajectory for somebody pursuing economics/environmental studies.

Re: I Paid Off $194k in Student Loans in Six Years. It Wasn’t Easy

#86

Post by lapcat »

somenameforme wrote: post #85
lapcat wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author got a degree in economics and environmental studies but ended up teaching himself data science and machine learning later, after leaving college, and getting a job in data science is what allowed him to pay off his student loan debt. So the blog post is basically contradicting what you said here.

I think the 'meat' in these sort of topics all comes down to trying our hardest to dismiss outliers, and seeing what can be "reasonably" expected. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Michael Dell, Larry Ellison, and a slew of others dropped out - and did okay. But of course that's a nonsensical argument for dropping out, because their outcomes were very atypical. Here too, high paying data science jobs is in no way a reasonable…

I think perhaps I misinterpreted your previous comment.

Re: I Paid Off $194k in Student Loans in Six Years. It Wasn’t Easy

#87

Post by fxtentacle »

EconoBen wrote: post #2

A few years ago, I set myself the goal of paying off all my student loans before I'm 30. I turn 30 in two months. And as of this month, I paid them off. All $194k of them... Obviously, this was a significant milestone for me. So, I took this opportunity to reflect on my journey so far. How I even came to owe that much money, how I overcame this obstacle, and what it all means to me.

Congratulations!

And let me just state the obvious: it appears that you are good with words. And the ability to clearly communicate complex topics in writing is a lot less common than you might think. My pet theory is that that's why working remotely didn't turn out well for so many people.

Re: I Paid Off $194k in Student Loans in Six Years. It Wasn’t Easy

#88

Post by EconoBen »

fxtentacle wrote: post #87
EconoBen wrote: post #2

A few years ago, I set myself the goal of paying off all my student loans before I'm 30. I turn 30 in two months. And as of this month, I paid them off. All $194k of them... Obviously, this was a significant milestone for me. So, I took this opportunity to reflect on my journey so far. How I even came to owe that much money, how I overcame this obstacle, and what it all means to me.

Congratulations! And let me just state the obvious: it appears that you are good with words. And the ability to clearly communicate complex topics in writing is a lot less common than you might think. My pet theory is that that's why working remotely didn't turn out well for so many people.

Hey thanks! I like writing. This one took me a few days to write, but formed inchoately in the back of my head for years. Sometimes it's nice to finally just let the words spill out on "paper".

Re: I Paid Off $194k in Student Loans in Six Years. It Wasn’t Easy

#89

Post by johnnyanmac »

dijit wrote: post #49
runako wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am in position where I would be able to pay that amount down (averaged over 10y) with the same QoL; however I do not have a degree. Bully for you! You are an outlier. Your employer may also be an outlier. That's wonderful for you, but it is irresponsible to recommend to any young person that they bet their futures on being able to 1) find 2) when they are hiring 3) and click with the hiring manager an outlier fir…

Unsure mate, if you have to pay $200k to get your foot in the door then the system is rigged in favour of the elite (again). I think you're suffering a bit from sunk cost fallacy and a little bit of "got mine", there's absolutely no reason to continue this. I (and practically all of my friends) may be outliers, but if nothing else it's proof that you can do highly specialised jobs with vocational education. As mentio…

>Unsure mate, if you have to pay $200k to get your foot in the door then the system is rigged in favour of the elite (again).

I get what you're saying and I agree it's absurdly expensive for what you get. But even for the current college bubble, $200k is above the median students pay for college. The school's tuition currently is $51k, and for reference, MIT is 55k. Apparently the median is still absurdly high ($44k, what the actual hell?), but there are a lot of cheaper options, as well as community college, to help bring those costs down.

Re: I Paid Off $194k in Student Loans in Six Years. It Wasn’t Easy

#90

Post by johnnyanmac »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #41
tivert wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has finally nullified any socio-economic advantage it once held as evidenced by the large number of graduates unable to repay their student loans. I think you're over-reacting to some anecdotes. > The solution --- stop steering your kids toward college. AI is working toward eliminating many of these "careers" in the near future anyway. > Instead, orient them toward entrepreneurism. A business as simple as landsc…

Also it doesn't seem super wise, period, to advise your kid to go into some low skill/low capital business, then expect them to magically make a successful small business out of it. Any less wise than sending them to some diploma mill and expecting them to make a successful career out of it once they are saddled with debt? Student loan debt is approaching $2 trillion with over 22 million borrowers. Everybody and his…

>Degree or not, success in today's environment is highly dependent on personal initiative.

This is the one thing we agree with. Now, I don't know the true solution here, but I will admit that even if I didn't end up in my degree's career that college was at least a good stepping stone to learning how to learn. I simply approach stuff differently in college compared to high school.

Maybe that speaks to how ill high school prepares students for the real world, but at the same time it isn't exactly wise to go 0-100 in living in a parent's supervision to trying to make a living at 18 year old with nothing to your name but a high school diploma. Not even direction in life, for some people. I feel we need some intermediary here where you can break off into independence without also worrying about next month's rent when the month prior you weren't even allowed to consent to many life factors.

And I say this with a family history where my parents, and their siblings were all more or less kicked out at 18 to join the military. Don't know if THAT is the path I'd recommend to the current youth either.

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