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Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

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Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#81

Post by mdp2021 »

stronglikedan wrote: post #30
chrisco255 wrote: post #5

Why make this for a desktop? E-ink is mostly useful for wireless applications and anywhere power is limited or there's a need for always on, static display.

I print everything to read it (if it's more than a couple of pages) because I have a hard time reading with a backlight, so I'm seriously considering backing this, if for nothing else than to reduce my paper consumption (even though I do religiously recycle).

Mate, why don't you "print" on an EPD tablet - an advanced "E-Reader"?

There are already plenty around. If you need to read a long document, transfer it to the tablet in its best format (PDF, markup etc). If you need to browse a lot of documents, create a VNC connection and use the tablet as a display.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#82

Post by no_wizard »

mdp2021 wrote: post #62
chrisco255 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a significant reduction in color depth and refresh rate, plus a need to provide external lighting to make up for the lack of built-in lighting, which, depending on the office environment may cancel out any power savings.

> lack of built-in lighting That depends on the environment. Natural light fights against the functioning of light-emitting displays. Reflective displays cooperate with natural light. You in the dark? Use OLED. Under the sun? Use EPD.

As kindle devices have shown though, you can backlight an e-ink display too

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#83

Post by thelazyone »

mdp2021 wrote: post #57
thelazyone wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true, but this doesn't pose a theoretical limit to a 30 fps monitor. I suspect that the current technology works by "setting" in place whole regions of the screen at once, and that this kind of process is inherently slow. Maybe in a (not so distant) future it'll be possible to have individual pixels changing, in a similar way as an mp4 doesn't update all the image when not necessary. Or not. So many technolog…

> it'll be possible to have individual pixels changing EPD displays already have that capability. When you modify the dots you use a modality that is sensitive to former states. What happens in full-screen refresh is a cleanup to redraw on the best former state for the cleanest output.

Even local refreshes however are somehow rectangle-based, no?

Which means that the resetting operation kinda works globally anyways, masking out everything between the xmin, xmax and ymin, ymax.

I'm really speculating here, but this was my impression every time I saw individual areas changing without a gobal refresh.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#84

Post by orbital-decay »

bornfreddy wrote: post #31
mcny wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To relieve eye strain. I think this will expose another, possibly larger, problem. My room is too poorly lit other than the screen. If there is no light coming from the screen, I am forced to turn on a light to read the screen. Maybe that's a good thing, I am not sure.

Some people have an inverse problem - it is difficult to position a monitor so that it doesn't reflect a window. This technology sounds perfect for that.

EPD displays aren't magically paper-like; in fact they are far from looking like actual paper. There's either plastic or glass in front, and they give the same glare as any other matte or glossy display. If anything, active lighting (either backlight or frontlight) helps mitigate glares, shadows, and other external lighting non-uniformities.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#85

Post by chaosprint »

mdp2021 wrote: post #73
chaosprint wrote: post #70

I owned lots of E-ink devices. I got a Boox Mira 13 inch screen and it works well on both Mac/Windows. On Windows I can even have some touchscreen interaction. But I have to warn you!!!! that your mouse is not going to work as it feels very different. So I use it only to read news, reply emails and messages. Coding, video, and gaming would be impossible! The same thing would 100% go to this new display. I have also g…

> your mouse ... feels very different Latency. It will work anyway, practically, through the right system, if you want to get used to it. > ... I can even have some touchscreen interaction An all systems, if you use remote desktop technologies (e.g. VNC).

windows seems to have some optimisation for touchscreen

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#86

Post by thelazyone »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #50
thelazyone wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true, but this doesn't pose a theoretical limit to a 30 fps monitor. I suspect that the current technology works by "setting" in place whole regions of the screen at once, and that this kind of process is inherently slow. Maybe in a (not so distant) future it'll be possible to have individual pixels changing, in a similar way as an mp4 doesn't update all the image when not necessary. Or not. So many technolog…

They do that already, and it results in ghosting and leftover artifacts. It's all tradeoffs, improving one number only to a limited extent and only at the expense of other numbers. Ie, faster action at the expense of worse image. No free lunch or getting around it by handwaving 'advancement'.

If the update was truly pixel based there should be no ghosting/artifact whatsoever. Looks like global refreshes or cleanup are still relevant, while ideally each pixel could be completely independent.

Trade-offs are a problem, but in this case i don't see any physical reason for this to be a theoretical trade-off. More like a limit of the current technology.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#87

Post by tazjin »

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #23
creatlv wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could put it outside and enjoy glare-free outdoor computer work?

I would love this for a laptop but I feel like the tech is too new to be that compact

Dasung actually make a 13" version of this, which I own and have used outside in Egypt a lot while I lived there. It's a VERY sunny country, and normal laptop screens are almost unusable outside.

My model is a few years older and things have probably improved since then (quality, refresh rate, interop with the OS to trigger things like full refreshes), but it was already fairly workable back then.

I also use a phone with an e-ink screen (Hisense A9) as my daily driver and it's quite nice, some software issues notwithstanding.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#88

Post by mdp2021 »

no_wizard wrote: post #82
mdp2021 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lack of built-in lighting That depends on the environment. Natural light fights against the functioning of light-emitting displays. Reflective displays cooperate with natural light. You in the dark? Use OLED. Under the sun? Use EPD.

As kindle devices have shown though, you can backlight an e-ink display too

> you can backlight an e-ink display too

And you could read OLED at noon in the tropics under an umbrella (I know I did) - but I was exactly talking about optimal use.

--

A good scientist can file with a saw and saw with a file

~~~ Ben Franklin

A wise guy does not, unless necessary

~~~ We, here and now

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#89

Post by LeoNatan25 »

siva7 wrote: post #66

This product would make sense as a portable secondary monitor for your laptop rig. The demo video is weird. Watching youtube isn't a good use case for a color e-ink.

They aren't watching videos, they are just lifelessly scrolling slowly a YouTube search results page with embarrassing search results.

Re: Paperlike Color: Color E-Ink Monitor

#90

Post by no_wizard »

nashashmi wrote: post #20
no_wizard wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E-Ink can achieve “real color” better than LED / LCD for design that is used in non electronic mediums. Also glare. The eye strain on e-ink is much less than that of LED / LCD displays. Subjectively I like the realism color aspect

Would love to know more on the color accuracy of e-ink displays.

TechCrunch has a nice break down of the possibilities around this[0]

I am not sure how the color e-ink performs in this particular scenario with the monitor advertised compared to something like P3 enabled displays, but the tech has advanced that Gallery 3 panels[1] can produce 50K CMYK scaled colors are 300 DPI which is great for color accuracy, esp. in regards to physical materials (brochures, T-Shirts etc).

That said, they're likely using Kaledio displays here, Good Reads has a nice breakdown of them[2]

[0]: https://techcrunch.com/2023/01/12/e-ink-color-tech-epaper-ma...

[1]: https://www.theverge.com/2022/4/25/23041407/e-ink-color-gall...

[2]: https://goodereader.com/blog/electronic-readers/e-ink-kaleid...

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