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Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

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Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#81

Post by boricj »

mutatio wrote: post #65
sys_64738 wrote: post #19

General de Gaulle was right in the 60s that the brits are more trouble than they're worth. France is smart and won't let them back in. Brexit is now and forever as far as the EU is concerned.

The guy who famously received safety for himself and his family in Britain during the war, what a thanks indeed... Believe it or not I've heard this anecdote told as a projection of anti-European sentiment, have you considered what might have been for the Anglo-European relationship had he not felt France was the centre of the European project and portrayed the UK this way?

The Gaulle considered the United Kingdom too closely aligned with the United States for comfort. At the time, De Gaulle's first veto on that topic came shortly after the US agreed to supply the UK with Polaris missiles for the UK's nuclear weapons program.

De Gaulle also wanted to shield the nascent EEC from the United States's influence as much as possible. For him, integrating the United Kingdom into the EEC would have moved the EEC's barycenter too far towards Washington.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#82

Post by blibble »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #78
blibble wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe it's unrealistic that political journalists should have some insight of the subject matter beyond that of a politics student (similarly: their recently retired stock-picking columnist revealed he'd never traded a stock)

Did you expect any of those things? Like I followed the process religiously and I kept being surprised by the sheer insanity of all the UK government decisions.

yes, I successfully predicted all of the above

from June 24th 2016: a hard exit with a fudge on the NI border was the only path that kept the tory party in one piece

and the tory party has always prioritised that over everything else

remember: it's the only reason they called a referendum in the first place

the only way it would have gone differently would have been if Labour had a leader other than Corbyn

having him as the opposition guaranteed it would happen

(because Middle England hated the idea of Corbyn in power more than they hated brexit)

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#83

Post by PrimeMcFly »

x86x87 wrote: post #68
bbg2401 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We probably have a different definition for xenophobia. Is anything I said not factually accurate? What triggered you? Tge empire bit? The British empire was huge and controled the world at one point in time. The fact that the economy is collapsing? The fact that immigrants are treated like shift in UK? Every country and political system has to live with the monsters they created, UK included.

You didn't say anything unreasonable or inaccurate at all.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#84

Post by PrimeMcFly »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #43

I was a remainer (ie anti-Brexit). This article shows what seems to be becoming a general growing consensus that "some people (prominent campaigners and politicians) lied to us for their own benefit" - and there is a more subtle second consensus of "and then forced a hard brexit for their own career gains". This is a nice consensus because it has evil people to blame, and removes the blame from 50% of the voting publ…

> How do we get sensible disagreement on the viable ones and laugh the crayon drawings out?

This is the biggest problem. It's an even bigger problem in the US.

The issue is lack of education. There's a reason repub voters are generally not college educated.

The answer is also education, with the caveat you can't educate people who don't want to be educated because they are already too far down a rabbit hole.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#85

Post by gettodachoppa »

usrusr wrote: post #41
blcknight wrote: post #5

Hard to imagine Britain joining both the Euro and the Schengen zones. I just don’t see the British public not thinking they’re special and demanding exceptions and carve outs just for them.

The first time I went to Tenerife I was deeply puzzled by seeing long immigration queues on TFS. It took me weeks of wondering who those people were, before I realized that they were UK vacationers who didn't enjoy any of the convenience of Schengen. Even Swiss and Norwegians would just walk through like on a domestic flight, UK visitors got special attention. That day I understood a lot more about brexit (that was s…

The benefits you describe are really unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

Would you also be a fan of a global union with a single currency?

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#86

Post by blibble »

x86x87 wrote: post #68
bbg2401 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We probably have a different definition for xenophobia. Is anything I said not factually accurate? What triggered you? Tge empire bit? The British empire was huge and controled the world at one point in time. The fact that the economy is collapsing? The fact that immigrants are treated like shift in UK? Every country and political system has to live with the monsters they created, UK included.

> Is anything I said not factually accurate?

well, this isn't:

> The fact that the economy is collapsing?

in 2023 UK is economy predicted to grow, albeit slowly

meanwhile the Germany economy is predicted to contract

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#87

Post by gettodachoppa »

mpweiher wrote: post #66
rightontarget wrote: post #30

FT and other media struggle to accept the results of democratic processes

1. The referendum wasn't actually democratic. 2. The obligations that people read into the referendum (incorrectly, but whatever) have been discharged: Brexit happened. That is the past. 3. Democracy is not "One man, one vote, one time". New majorities mean new democratic mandates. Time moves on. 4. And these majorities are much, much larger than ~ 52:48 majority for Brexit. A split that, had it gone for remain, Nige…

I agree with #3 and I imagine Brexit will be reversed because of demographics. Give it a generation or so and the conformist younger people who have had globalisation propaganda and lack of pride in their country programmed into their minds since childhood will vote to rejoin. Every TV show, every teacher, most NGOs, are at it.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#88

Post by deepthunder »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #43

I was a remainer (ie anti-Brexit). This article shows what seems to be becoming a general growing consensus that "some people (prominent campaigners and politicians) lied to us for their own benefit" - and there is a more subtle second consensus of "and then forced a hard brexit for their own career gains". This is a nice consensus because it has evil people to blame, and removes the blame from 50% of the voting publ…

A start would be ditching FPTP elections.

People vote with their emotions, regardless of education. But I will concede education helps. However, look at all the educated but gullible fools who still think the Democrat Party is "for the people" compared to the Republican Party. Both parties are for the Ruling Elite. Its just different Rhetoric but same actions and outcomes.

Re: Brexit Could Be Reversed - Here's How

#89

Post by [deleted] »

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #84
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #43

I was a remainer (ie anti-Brexit). This article shows what seems to be becoming a general growing consensus that "some people (prominent campaigners and politicians) lied to us for their own benefit" - and there is a more subtle second consensus of "and then forced a hard brexit for their own career gains". This is a nice consensus because it has evil people to blame, and removes the blame from 50% of the voting publ…

> How do we get sensible disagreement on the viable ones and laugh the crayon drawings out? This is the biggest problem. It's an even bigger problem in the US. The issue is lack of education. There's a reason repub voters are generally not college educated. The answer is also education, with the caveat you can't educate people who don't want to be educated because they are already too far down a rabbit hole.

[deleted]
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