Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#81

Post by WithinReason » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 8:42 AM UTC

uxcolumbo wrote: post #48

jgilias wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individual decisions like that are only good for making yourself feel good about doing something, but it’s close to meaningless when it comes to actually solving it. It’s systemic solutions that are needed. Some of those may include disincentivizing consumption. But it’s also not simple given that in many places there’s serious pushback against that. And also the economic cost. Everything is interwoven. I wish people…

This study[0] and several other studies by UN, Oxford Uni etc disagree with you. The single best thing an individual can do is immensely reduce or completely avoid meat and dairy. Imagine millions and millions of people doing this, behavioural change will trigger system’s change. It’s something we can do today, just need to decide whether having a burger is more important or not. [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s…

I everyone in the world adopted a vegan diet CO2 emissions would drop by 13%. Still eating pork, poultry, eggs and fish would reduce it by 8.6%:

https://ourworldindata.org/carbon-opportunity-costs-food

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#82

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 8:43 AM UTC

Lorkki wrote: post #45

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right has been accused of denialism for decades at this point, but any time solutions they might be in favor of are proposed, the left gives us hysterics about how geo-engineering is too dangerous to contemplate. This leads me to believe that they're lying about how important it is to them. Supposedly, it is a world-ending scenario... at least when it comes to wrecking economies. But the moment real fixes are dis…

The expert opinions that I've seen so far have indicated that geoengineering at any scale that we're realistically able to produce on a short notice is unlikely to have a sufficient effect on climate change. Essentially it's a pipe dream at best, and a way to create additional (localised) disasters at worst. If the only proper argument for doing it is that "the left" is against it and "the right" is for it, that seem…

The expert opinions that come from the same people who don't want it to happen? How much are those worth?

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#83

Post by comprev » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 8:48 AM UTC

seu wrote: post #17

H8crilA wrote: post #4

At which point do you think humanity will start seriously thinking about radical solutions? Such as detonating thermonuclear weapons to throw enough dust above the troposphere to cool the planet down? I'm thinking we're still really far away. Migration from areas that become uninhabitable is still weak. And it doesn't look like any state that has substantial military/commercial/political power is interested in starti…

> At which point do you think humanity will start seriously thinking about radical solutions? You mean, like, switching to a vegan diet, using public transport and stop flying? Those seem radical enough for most people in the Northern Hemisphere. > Such as detonating thermonuclear weapons to throw enough dust above the troposphere to cool the planet down? Weird world, one in which people can consider drastically chan…

it's the same mentality as those who feel bullet-proof safe rooms in schools is a better solution that giving up their guns.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#84

Post by anothernewdude » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 8:49 AM UTC

Aerroon wrote: post #38

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should take note that even now we have companies pushing back against any changes to our oil consumption. They're literally intent on destroying our way of life to get a bit more profit.

But our oil consumption essentially is our way of life. Changing it will have enormous effects on modern life. A lot of people are going to see a significant drop in their quality of life as a result. This is why it's so hard to change things in the first place, it's not about the companies, but about average people.

I'm happy with remote working.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#85

Post by numbers_guy » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 8:49 AM UTC

ant6n wrote: post #24

H8crilA wrote: post #4

At which point do you think humanity will start seriously thinking about radical solutions? Such as detonating thermonuclear weapons to throw enough dust above the troposphere to cool the planet down? I'm thinking we're still really far away. Migration from areas that become uninhabitable is still weak. And it doesn't look like any state that has substantial military/commercial/political power is interested in starti…

Radical solutions are known but don’t involve risky Matrix-Style geo-engineering: very heavy taxation on CO2 emissions, 3x-4x those taxes for aviation emissions (due to radiative forcing), ban on ICE vehicles, successive ban on heating other than heat pumps, phase out of non renewable energy generation, in particular coal and gas. Parts of these are being tried by the Greens in Germany (part of govt), but everyone is…

If those policies were global it would be fair. Doing it only in Germany is just making the Germans poorer.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#86

Post by Ekaros » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 8:53 AM UTC

throwaway33608 wrote: post #26

dvh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

200 million people trying to get into (or get through) 5 million country

As someone from a such country of 5 million, this crosses my mind almost daily now.

I'm thankful that I'm living in such country with equal nice countries on one side and rather closed one on other. With enough space to probably house this population in future.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#87

Post by ant6n » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 8:54 AM UTC

numbers_guy wrote: post #85

ant6n wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Radical solutions are known but don’t involve risky Matrix-Style geo-engineering: very heavy taxation on CO2 emissions, 3x-4x those taxes for aviation emissions (due to radiative forcing), ban on ICE vehicles, successive ban on heating other than heat pumps, phase out of non renewable energy generation, in particular coal and gas. Parts of these are being tried by the Greens in Germany (part of govt), but everyone is…

If those policies were global it would be fair. Doing it only in Germany is just making the Germans poorer.

Germany as one of the richest nations, and one of the largest cumulative polluters, should be a role model here. If everybody needs to do it, somebody needs to start.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#88

Post by noduerme » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 8:54 AM UTC

psychphysic wrote: post #61

No one is really interested in doing the work to slow global warming. - Build nuclear power plants everywhere . Yes even in countries like Iran and North Korea - Don't subsidize fossil fuel use by any mechanism. Yes dropping the Russian fuel cap. - Make reducing emissions a priority that means it comes first in consideration. Yes ahead of Uighurs in China, Women in Iran and Afghanistan. You will not get everything yo…

Just stop having babies.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#89

Post by Ekaros » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 8:55 AM UTC

uxcolumbo wrote: post #48

jgilias wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individual decisions like that are only good for making yourself feel good about doing something, but it’s close to meaningless when it comes to actually solving it. It’s systemic solutions that are needed. Some of those may include disincentivizing consumption. But it’s also not simple given that in many places there’s serious pushback against that. And also the economic cost. Everything is interwoven. I wish people…

This study[0] and several other studies by UN, Oxford Uni etc disagree with you. The single best thing an individual can do is immensely reduce or completely avoid meat and dairy. Imagine millions and millions of people doing this, behavioural change will trigger system’s change. It’s something we can do today, just need to decide whether having a burger is more important or not. [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s…

Why stop at meat and dairy. Why not go all the way, select handful of optimal foods and only allow those to be sold or grown. Anyone doing anything else would heavily punished?

After all, if we ban beef. We have accepted that taste has no meaning in life and we can just ban everything not mandatory like spices and herbs.

Re: Climate records tumble, leaving Earth in uncharted territory – scientists

#90

Post by mrob » Sat, Jul 22, 2023, 9:00 AM UTC

WithinReason wrote: post #81

uxcolumbo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This study[0] and several other studies by UN, Oxford Uni etc disagree with you. The single best thing an individual can do is immensely reduce or completely avoid meat and dairy. Imagine millions and millions of people doing this, behavioural change will trigger system’s change. It’s something we can do today, just need to decide whether having a burger is more important or not. [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s…

I everyone in the world adopted a vegan diet CO2 emissions would drop by 13%. Still eating pork, poultry, eggs and fish would reduce it by 8.6%: https://ourworldindata.org/carbon-opportunity-costs-food

That's "CO2e" (CO2 equivalent, measured in global warming potential), not CO2. The time scale isn't specified, despite making a big difference in some cases, so I'll assume it's calculated over 20 years, which seems to be the most common. It's important to distinguish CO2 from CO2e, because a large part of CO2e emissions from animal farming are methane, which is a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. Methane emissions could be reduced in multiple ways, e.g. we could switch to farming kangaroos, which don't produce methane, or supplement cow feed with seaweed, which was found to dramatically reduce methane production:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...