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Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

wsj.com

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Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#81

Post by code-blooded »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #58
code-blooded wrote: post #9

I moved from the US to Europe a year ago and I think articles like this don't capture quality of life in Europe well. Just think about healthier food, walkable cities, great public transportation, safety, free education and healthcare. The way I see it, life in Europe is less stressful and more enjoyable than in the US. Having less money translates into having a smaller house or a car, but in my opinion that doesn't…

>I moved from the US to Europe a year ago and I think articles like this don't capture quality of life in Europe well. Europe isn't a country. Where exactly in Europe did you move?

Poland. I travelled around Europe and stayed for 1+ month in several places last year before ending up in Poland. Since I have recent first-hand experience with multiple countries I say "Europe" when it applies to what I observed in majority of the countries I visited.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#82

Post by FirmwareBurner »

code-blooded wrote: post #81
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I moved from the US to Europe a year ago and I think articles like this don't capture quality of life in Europe well. Europe isn't a country. Where exactly in Europe did you move?

Poland. I travelled around Europe and stayed for 1+ month in several places last year before ending up in Poland. Since I have recent first-hand experience with multiple countries I say "Europe" when it applies to what I observed in majority of the countries I visited.

But visiting a country is not the same as living, working and paying taxes in one though.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#83

Post by code-blooded »

edem wrote: post #43
code-blooded wrote: post #9

I moved from the US to Europe a year ago and I think articles like this don't capture quality of life in Europe well. Just think about healthier food, walkable cities, great public transportation, safety, free education and healthcare. The way I see it, life in Europe is less stressful and more enjoyable than in the US. Having less money translates into having a smaller house or a car, but in my opinion that doesn't…

Where you live (which country)?

Poland. I travelled around Europe and chose Poland for a mix of personal and quality of life reasons. Whenever I mention Europe I speak about what I observed in majority of places I visited in Europe though.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#84

Post by rob74 »

lucasRW wrote: post #56
rob74 wrote: post #48

Many of the examples given in the article are complete rubbish: > The French are eating less foie gras and drinking less red wine. foie gras involves torturing animals, and drinking less alcohol is healthier, so good for them! > Across Germany, meat and milk consumption has fallen to the lowest level in three decades yes, more people are eating less meat - good for them and for the environment! > TooGoodToGo, a compa…

So according to your "analysis", not going on holydays anymore, or to the restaurant, or having smaller houses, is not the sign of being less wealthy... "because it is good for the planet". Green-leftism summarized righ here !! :D

No, I just wanted to suggest that some of the things mentioned in the article may also have other reasons than simply not being able to afford them. I am not in any way in dire straits financially, but I also look at the "reduced price" (due to sell-by date or for other reasons) shelf in the supermarket - not because I can't afford anything else, but in order to have more money for other stuff. And I also try to go more by foot, bicycle or public transportation than using the car - partly because of increased fuel prices, but partly also because it's healthier, better for the environment and I generally arrive at the destination less stressed out than if I take the car. Reality is more complex than the simplistic spin articles like this one try to put on it!

As for "having smaller houses", that's not as much because people are earning less, but because housing prices have exploded recently - that's a real problem that the article completely fails to mention, because it doesn't fit into its narrative (it also happens in the US).

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#85

Post by code-blooded »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #82
code-blooded wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland. I travelled around Europe and stayed for 1+ month in several places last year before ending up in Poland. Since I have recent first-hand experience with multiple countries I say "Europe" when it applies to what I observed in majority of the countries I visited.

But visiting a country is not the same as living, working and paying taxes in one though.

Not sure what you mean. Of course I cannot live and pay taxes in every single European country. All I say is based on limited experiences of visiting multiple countries for 1-3 month long stays and then living and paying taxes in Poland.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#86

Post by piva00 »

murderfs wrote: post #27
seren wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European, I can still believe this is true (maybe this is some kind of coping mechanism), but at the same time, I got the impression, that overall healthcare, education, safety nets are getting worse as time goes by, so I don't know how long it will stay an advantage. At some point, you need to have the mean to finance these services, so stagnating GDP is not that good.

Europe, with the exception of the countries directly bordering Russia and Greece (buying weapons to point at fellow NATO member Turkey), has spent decades underinvesting in national defense, arguably freeloading under American hegemony. Now that that's coming to an end, expect things to get worse.

Freeloading? The USA spends massive amounts on its military exactly to maintain hegemony, European countries weren't going around the globe to fight pointless wars based on shaky (or completely fabricated) casus belli. There was no reason to spend a lot of tax money on military equipment, training, upkeep, just because. Russia's complete invasion of Ukraine shook Europe's defence outlook and created a reason to invest in it but that's it.

The USA providing security guarantees is not freeloading, it's USA's strategy to hegemony, it's how the USA has kept it...

Investing in defence without participating in wars (or to defend your hegemony) is just a waste of taxpayers' money, it's money that could go to healthcare, to education, or to any other improvement in quality of life of your citizens. I'm very glad that Europe hasn't been burning trillions of dollars on stuff just made to kill people.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#87

Post by Garvi »

hef19898 wrote: post #44
Garvi wrote: post #3

The doubling of energy prices pretty much wiped out the heavy industry sector around here. I remember the German heavy industry Rhein area unions protesting this in Berlin without much media coverage a few months ago.

Industry sectors are not being wiped out that fast so.

What is that statement based on? In my country heavy industry has halved in the past 12 months. I know multiple engineers who are now getting into software development because of it.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#88

Post by sam_lowry_ »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #62
ramblerman wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss cities are consistently among the most expensive in the world. Food is bad. Very xenophobic society. It has a lot of great things too ofc. But I wouldn’t consider it representative of the nicer parts of Europe (vs pure financial optimization) mentioned above such as working less, walking, biking in the city.

>Food is bad. Very xenophobic society. Where did you get your info? Swiss food quality is some of the best in the world, well regulated and mostly organic, that's why it's so expensive. How did you measure xenofobia?

Swiss are also quite bullyish. The only time I saw two respectable white men get into a fight over a seat was in the train to Zermatt

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#89

Post by FirmwareBurner »

klabb3 wrote: post #63
hcks wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans have a strong ability to cope for their declining standards of life. They’ll mention how about they have great cities/safety/etc but you’ll notice they never say which city/country exactly they’re talking about (as in let’s pretend all of Europe is Switzerland)

Hard disagree. The ones who ramble about Sweden, Switzerland, Finland when they’ve reached some goal like “happiest people in the world” or “safest cities”, usually with some picture of a cabin in the alps, are Americans who romanticize Europe.

> are Americans who romanticize Europe.

Indeed. They don't know that many people here still have 1h+ commutes to their soul crushing 9-5 jobs just like they do, and assume everyone has a 15 minute bike ride to work through a cobble stone street or working remotely with their MacBooks in hip central cafes.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#90

Post by thefz »

rob74 wrote: post #48

Many of the examples given in the article are complete rubbish: > The French are eating less foie gras and drinking less red wine. foie gras involves torturing animals, and drinking less alcohol is healthier, so good for them! > Across Germany, meat and milk consumption has fallen to the lowest level in three decades yes, more people are eating less meat - good for them and for the environment! > TooGoodToGo, a compa…

> TooGoodToGo, a company founded in Denmark in 2015 that sells leftover food from retailers and restaurants, has 76 million registered users across Europe

I am a registered user and never used the service. I just forget.

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