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Did Airbnb kill the PM role?

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Re: Did Airbnb kill the PM role?

#81

Post by red-iron-pine »

the_mar wrote: post #60
yawnxyz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At Microsoft many years ago, they used to put a lot of product design work on PMs (who didn't have the training or time / bandwidth to do that well). I think this was the Ballmer era...

Personally, I think a PM that doesn't have training / skills to do product design work is a glorified note-taker. I don't necessarily mean the implementation skills of "making screens", but arguably that skill is the easiest to obtain. Otherwise you end up with a weird division of labor, where the PM actually does all the creative design work and the designer is an implementation monkey, which I don't know any design…

Been saying that for a while. "A PM is a glorified secretary"

Re: Did Airbnb kill the PM role?

#82

Post by subpixel »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #80
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's a residential property, it's a residential property, not (what is effectively a) hotel.

Again: it’s not your property, so why do you care about their guests staying for 1 night or 1 month? Seems like a rather artificial distinction.

I live within walking distance dozens of short-term rentals in a very small town.

The difference between having dozens of neighbors with families, children, and strong ties to the community and not having those neighbors and community connections is in no way artificial.

Some reasons I care: schools that decline with population loss, the lack of available/affordable rental homes for local residents, the effects on local retail and service businesses, the tendency for hurried visitors to drive at unsafe speeds while staring at their phone for directions.

Problems that you do not experience remain real problems.

Re: Did Airbnb kill the PM role?

#83

Post by cycrutchfield »

brigadier132 wrote: post #62
cycrutchfield wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, you cite some other boogeymen. They are high mostly because not enough housing is being built to meet demand.

> Ironically, you cite some other boogeymen Inflation is a fact. Globalization is a fact. Money is flowing from the entire planet into the US to find stable places to store it.

If money is flowing to the US to buy real estate, I say good. That’s more money being pumped into our economy, more money going to local communities via property taxes. Let’s build more real estate meet this demand.

Re: Did Airbnb kill the PM role?

#84

Post by cycrutchfield »

subpixel wrote: post #82
cycrutchfield wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again: it’s not your property, so why do you care about their guests staying for 1 night or 1 month? Seems like a rather artificial distinction.

I live within walking distance dozens of short-term rentals in a very small town. The difference between having dozens of neighbors with families, children, and strong ties to the community and not having those neighbors and community connections is in no way artificial. Some reasons I care: schools that decline with population loss, the lack of available/affordable rental homes for local residents, the effects on lo…

So basically instead of thinking about how you can better accommodate visitor demand and respect property owners’ rights, you would prefer to regulate your “small town feel” back into existence.

Re: Did Airbnb kill the PM role?

#85

Post by subpixel »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #84
subpixel wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live within walking distance dozens of short-term rentals in a very small town. The difference between having dozens of neighbors with families, children, and strong ties to the community and not having those neighbors and community connections is in no way artificial. Some reasons I care: schools that decline with population loss, the lack of available/affordable rental homes for local residents, the effects on lo…

So basically instead of thinking about how you can better accommodate visitor demand and respect property owners’ rights, you would prefer to regulate your “small town feel” back into existence.

It seems your passion for this topic is such that you are attributing to me things others may have said in this thread (or elsewhere).

Re: Did Airbnb kill the PM role?

#86

Post by cycrutchfield »

subpixel wrote: post #85
cycrutchfield wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically instead of thinking about how you can better accommodate visitor demand and respect property owners’ rights, you would prefer to regulate your “small town feel” back into existence.

It seems your passion for this topic is such that you are attributing to me things others may have said in this thread (or elsewhere).

I’m just drawing some reasonable inferences from your list of complaints. If you feel I’ve misrepresented your position, feel free to correct me.

Re: Did Airbnb kill the PM role?

#87

Post by piva00 »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #70
piva00 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An apartment building is owned collectively and with that comes a set of rules. In most places you aren't allowed to be a nuisance, even though you own a share of the house you don't get to dictate or do whatever you want just because you own something. Your property is just a part of a larger property, respect others or get the fuck out. It's a pretty simple arrangement that one gets into when they purchase an apart…

Why do you assume that guests that stay over are a nuisance?

If you host a few guests a year, for a few days, and they are your friends or people who you might trust, no issue whatsoever.

A never ending cycle of tourists staying for 2-10 days as your neighbours? That's definitely a nuisance over time, very improbable that churning through 50-100 groups of different people per year won't create issues to neighbours.

If you don't see how it could be an issue I think only if you lived in a touristic place, neighbour to AirBnBs, to actually understand. I say that not to provoke you but because I feel it's hard to empathise when it's not your day-to-day life. Just this year I experienced that when staying at a friend's place in Lisbon, I shared it on another HN thread:

> As an anecdote: a month ago I stayed a few days (5-7) at a friend's place I was visiting who lives in Lisbon, just on his floor there are 4 AirBnBs (owned by the same person). Not only it was a nuisance with noise for most of the days I was there it was also a nuisance to have drunk British girls banging on your door at 02.00 in the night when they don't remember the fucking apartment they are supposedly going to. My friend mentioned it's not uncommon for that to happen, or to have a gag of people show up to a party in one of the apartments. Other people living in the building have complained to AirBnB, to the police, to the housing association, nothing really happens.

Re: Did Airbnb kill the PM role?

#88

Post by cycrutchfield »

piva00 wrote: post #87
cycrutchfield wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume that guests that stay over are a nuisance?

If you host a few guests a year, for a few days, and they are your friends or people who you might trust, no issue whatsoever. A never ending cycle of tourists staying for 2-10 days as your neighbours? That's definitely a nuisance over time, very improbable that churning through 50-100 groups of different people per year won't create issues to neighbours. If you don't see how it could be an issue I think only if you…

So sounds like the bug is lax enforcement of noise ordinances? Not sure why it makes a difference whether the drunk and noisy houseguest is a short-term renter or a friend of the owner.

Re: Did Airbnb kill the PM role?

#89

Post by asadotzler »

seizethecheese wrote: post #31
carimura wrote: post #20

> Only ship something you are proud of. meh. lots of companies are wildly successful with crappy products built by 9-5 teams. or startups with founders that are embarrassed by v0.1 or even v1.0.

Depends on scale and industry, right? A post-scale consumer company should only ship something they are highly proud of.

I doubt Amazon's web team are proud of Amazon ads and in-house product placement making their long-scaled product far less usable but they know it pays the bills so they keep turning the crank. The guy 20 years ago with the one click checkout clean flow feature and patent, yeah, he probably had some pride. But the guy injecting ads into your brain to try to break that flow, probably not so much. Pride is no longer a thing for most people. They work to get money to do the things they are or will be proud of in the meaningful parts of their lives. Work is shit for most people and everyone is waking up to that except some of his highly privileged silicon valley workers.

Re: Did Airbnb kill the PM role?

#90

Post by piva00 »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #88
piva00 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you host a few guests a year, for a few days, and they are your friends or people who you might trust, no issue whatsoever. A never ending cycle of tourists staying for 2-10 days as your neighbours? That's definitely a nuisance over time, very improbable that churning through 50-100 groups of different people per year won't create issues to neighbours. If you don't see how it could be an issue I think only if you…

So sounds like the bug is lax enforcement of noise ordinances? Not sure why it makes a difference whether the drunk and noisy houseguest is a short-term renter or a friend of the owner.

A friend of the owner implies the owner is a neighbour, someone who you can eventually talk about the issue in the house. It makes a difference as there's a greater degree of social bond (and consequently shame).

Are you being obtuse on purpose to not give up on a flawed argument?

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