Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983 • Hacker News Board

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#81

Post by fredgrott » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:36 PM UTC

eschulz wrote: post #10

Makes sense when you have student loans backed by the federal government. If an 18 year old with no money and no credit history gets accepted into a qualifying university, she will be able to receive a loan since the bank knows that the government will protect their investment if she fails to pay them back. So now young people have this easy access to credit, and universities can greatly increase tuition and fees wit…

false narrative, two counter points:

1. State govs have reduced funds to all public colleges. 2. Fed gov has refused to increase grants such as Pell on inflation basis.

And that is way before the other forces of price increases and demand increases.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#82

Post by londons_explore » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:36 PM UTC

scinerio wrote: post #33

londons_explore wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is no accident. The government wants a world class education system and leading research. They could just give money direct to universities - but then it's hard to ensure they're getting good value for money. But by giving it to students to in turn give to universities they get better value for money. One day someone has to pay for that - and the students paying it back via loan repayments isn't awfull…

A world-class education system where you can leave the $200k in debt and never exceed $100k in income. We're at a point where going into college for non-STEM degree can (and likely will be) one of the biggest mistakes of your life.

But if the government paid for it, you would never see the $200k in debt. But you'd still be in debt - it would just be government debt. And as a citizen, your government's debt is still kinda your problem.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#83

Post by FireBeyond » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:36 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #45

taeric wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse than just "backed by the federal government," the loans are basically protected by the government. Being one of the small list of things you can't bankrupt out of, the risk in giving out the loans has been fully pulled from the lenders. It is frustrating to hear the discourse over the inappropriate students that are taking on too much debt, all the while ignoring the lenders that are taking on too much risk. At…

Eh I think the impact of the federal government on undergraduate costs is largely overstated. The limits for dependent students, which is most undergrads, is really small over 4 years. https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans/subsidized... You can only borrow $31k over 4 years. That isn't a lot at all.

This for federal loans.

But the government has "protected" all loans - private education loans are also unable to be discharged by bankruptcy, for example.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#84

Post by sbdaman » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:36 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #54

I'd like to see a new funding model for universities. I'd like to see universities be able to register for a share of tax revenue from their students post-graduation. For example "This course costs 5% extra income tax for 20 years". Then, you pay nothing for the course, but after you graduate you pay a 5% higher tax rate, and that extra money goes to the university. The IRS would administer the scheme since they alre…

This is just an Income Share Agreement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_share_agreement

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#85

Post by thebradbain » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:36 PM UTC

hospitalJail wrote: post #48

dpierce9 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private high school costs have also gone up astronomically and there are no federal loans for them. [0] https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-private-school

Where does it say that? Btw private school looks quite affordable. I used to think my neighbor was rich, they were, but for only $20k/yr you can send 2 kids to private school? That is cheaper than daycare.

Depends on the city… in Los Angeles private schools can push $70k/yr/student easily; In the Bay Area I would imagine even higher. In Dallas, where I grew up and went to the same school for much less, tuition is now around $40k/student/year for top private schools.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#86

Post by borissk » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:36 PM UTC

TheCaptain4815 wrote: post #61

I wonder why University Presidents/ Top Administrators get so much less flak from politicians compared to CEOs, while probably making decisions that further increase the University "profits" all while many make $1mil/year+.

Because CEOs contribute and control a lot more money going to lobbing and politician financing.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#87

Post by somewhat_drunk » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:36 PM UTC

basisword wrote: post #26

eschulz wrote: post #10

Makes sense when you have student loans backed by the federal government. If an 18 year old with no money and no credit history gets accepted into a qualifying university, she will be able to receive a loan since the bank knows that the government will protect their investment if she fails to pay them back. So now young people have this easy access to credit, and universities can greatly increase tuition and fees wit…

If only governments could make…laws to restrict the price of University. Or…could limit the maximum loan size thus encouraging Universities to not charge more than that.

Price controls are one of the few things that economists on both sides of the political aisle agree do not work, and/or have unintended consequences which are worse than the problem they attempt to resolve.

https://www.econlib.org/the-consensus-on-price-controls/

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#88

Post by solarmist » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:37 PM UTC

ourmandave wrote: post #56

codegeek wrote: post #41

It is free money for lenders because backed by the Govt AND protected against bankruptcy. It is Free money for colleges because they know they will get paid regardless. Remove this "free money guarantee" and watch how market corrects itself. When students can file for bankruptcy and/or the debt is not guaranteed by Govt, lenders would now use the same criteria they use to issue credit cards to 18 year olds. Hint: It'…

If you don't repay your student loan, it dies with you. They won't go after your estate for the balance.

Sure, but the bulk of those consequences are decades away so effectively they don’t exist (or are at least invisible).

So schools and lenders are acting as if it’s true.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#89

Post by kortilla » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:37 PM UTC

taeric wrote: post #66

GartzenDeHaes wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lenders that are taking on too much risk The lenders are taking no risks since these loans cannot be discharged through bankruptcy. There are also very large late fees and penalties that can triple (or more) the amount owed.

Right, this is what I meant by them having captured the market.

But your comment seems to blame them for taking on risk, which they aren’t. Maybe reword it?

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#90

Post by taeric » Mon, Jul 10, 2023, 5:37 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #45

taeric wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse than just "backed by the federal government," the loans are basically protected by the government. Being one of the small list of things you can't bankrupt out of, the risk in giving out the loans has been fully pulled from the lenders. It is frustrating to hear the discourse over the inappropriate students that are taking on too much debt, all the while ignoring the lenders that are taking on too much risk. At…

Eh I think the impact of the federal government on undergraduate costs is largely overstated. The limits for dependent students, which is most undergrads, is really small over 4 years. https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans/subsidized... You can only borrow $31k over 4 years. That isn't a lot at all.

Wait, what? That is a misleading read of that page. Only if you have parents/guardians that can get a PLUS loan is that the limit. You have to look at the other column for everyone else.

And that is the principal. With a short limit on how much of that can be subsidized, meaning the rest is accruing interest from day 1. Such that they amount you would owe will be laughably higher than even that number after your school. And that is assuming you don't have to then delay repayment for financial hardships.