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Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

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Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I always thought a lot of the abstractions we add were just pure resume-driven nonsense too, but I guess it is better than having engineering minded people think up better ways to liquify other humans.

Having worked in defense, I don't recall anyone who was gleeful about killing others. It was all about keeping our families and neighbors safe. If you're arguing against defense work in general, please consider the consequences of unilaterally disarming ourselves. I want world peace. Unfortunately others seem to prefer expansion / exploitation of other nations.

I’ve no doubt that almost all weapons engineers the world over believe they are working for a noble cause (and many of them with neighbors far more belligerent than Mexico or Canada). I can’t help but suspect that some do take glee in it but know better than to advertise that.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#82
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are truly the most brainwashed people on the planet.

> Americans are truly the most brainwashed people on the planet. I'd like to respond, but it's not clear if you're up for a serious discussion.

In the planning phase of the 2003 Iraq invasion:

[1]

> As a result, the executive steering group and its supporting working groups spent extensive time on building a humanitarian assistance package for Iraq, but comparatively little time on the functions of a post-regime government outside of the oil ministry.

Surely with the focus on the oil ministry, post invasion operations were fully transparent and not at all suspicious!

[2]

> In October 2004, the audits conducted by IAMB and KPMG revealed the CPA's inadequate accounting system. IAMB failed its oversight process for several months because of procedural disputes and US manipulation. During this time illegal export of petroleum was conducted secretly from Iraq, and a large amount of funds for DFI were disbursed without accountability. According to the audits conducted by the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction (SIGIR), US $8.8 billion of the US$23 billion of Iraqi money disbursed for DFI has not been accounted [for].

> Iraq's oil infrastructure was damaged when the CPA took over. The CPA effected selected repairs. But the IAMB found that the CPA had chosen not to repair the meters on the pipelines. The IAMB told the CPA that they were concerned that the lack of metering made auditing Iraq's oil exports unreliable – making it impossible to detect fraud, deception or smuggling. The minutes of the IAMB meeting make clear that the CPA had assured the IAMB that they were in the process of repairing the meters – in bad faith. The CPA's authority came to an end with the meters unrepaired. Estimates of how much oil revenue was siphoned off during the year of the CPA's administration go as high as $4 billion – comparable to the amount Saddam Hussein is suspected of stealing during the entire duration of the oil-for-food program.

Uhhhhh... Right, thanks for keeping us safe defense industry!

[1] - pg. 64, The US Army in the Iraq War, 2003-2006

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_Fund_for_Iraq

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#83
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remarkably easy - but at the price of facing full wrath in return and destroying your life.

Afaik no one has yet caught the “jetpack/drone” that would occasionally fly around lax. Pretty busy airport loaded with defense contractors nearby, should be hard to walk away from something like that but it happens.

A guy I talked to the other month will as a summer intern be tasked with trying to build a drone detection and jamming system.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#84
post #77
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different doctrine. Stinger is useful for LSCO (large scale combat operations) doctrine, but NATO thought it would be COIN doctrine (counter insurgency like in Afghanistan) 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterinsurgency

Are stingers even useful for LSCO? I get the sense Ukraine us using them as the insurgency rather than the counter-insurgency

turns out things like Stingers/TOW/Javelin are extremely useful in proxy wars, where NATO doesn't want to put boots/planes in the area of operations.

if NATO is so loss averse and doesnt want to risk own soldiers' lives, then NATO/US doctrine should plan for proxy wars - and not blindly assume they will have air superiority everywhere

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working conditions are also a factor. Good luck finding a SCIF that's as pleasant as a home office. But yeah, salary is a big issue. Defense work (whether as a civil servant or a contractor) just doesn't pay as well as VC-backed software development. Although in the current job market, I have to say that the median pay gap seems to be smaller.

The question is, with the last decade of interest rate policy ending, will VC-backed SWE salaries ever come back? Similar to one not expecting to sub 3% mortgages to come back; it was a macro anomaly. For sure, "make hay when the sun is shining". But the days of clearing $200k-$400k to build crud apps or other low value high comp engineering work might not be coming back. Conversely, this is an opportunity for higher…

I don't have a crystal ball any more than anyone else, but people are still making those salaries. The layoffs barely got us back to 2019 employment levels.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I've written in a similar post, this attitude is a bit baffling. In IT we say, a backup ain't a backup until regularly validated to work, and most IT insurances/policies require regular testing for backups. I'd expect the same standard for anything military/involving national security, alone for the fact that should war come, there will be a need to rapidly expand production, to rope in everyone able and willing -…

It's almost a certainty that all of the drawings, plans, and related engineering information for the Stinger missile still exists. In that sense, the backup is fine. It works. Raytheon has the plans for the Stinger missile and likely much, if not all, information on the design of the original production lines. But that's probably where the issue lies. Those plans make certain assumptions based on the technology, tool…

This is mostly it. Plus you have to remember all the documentation lies in a 30 year old system. A new hire isn’t going to be easily able to piece together all the details quickly. Then there is all the stuff that is documented or not in procedures manuals and standard practices that they won’t know. Add in actual missing documentation like order of operations and special considerations that have down steam effects and i guarantee you would still come out ahead even if you are paying retirees 2x as much. The parts are no doubt expensive and any single screw up would likely be at least worth of salary expenses.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#87
post #55

That's weird, the stinger is an amazing weapon which allows an infantry to take out an aerial threat, which is quite amazing. I don't understand why they would not secure the production of that missile, or even replace it with something new. It's not like they don't have enough money to cover all possible sorts of weapons that can exist.

Well Poles took Igla, removed soviet electronics, put there new modern electronics and started making Grom, which then got a birth to Piorun. I would assume that Stingers need to go through similar development as electronics from 1970s/1980s will be hard to get or very expensive.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#88
post #84
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are stingers even useful for LSCO? I get the sense Ukraine us using them as the insurgency rather than the counter-insurgency

turns out things like Stingers/TOW/Javelin are extremely useful in proxy wars, where NATO doesn't want to put boots/planes in the area of operations. if NATO is so loss averse and doesnt want to risk own soldiers' lives, then NATO/US doctrine should plan for proxy wars - and not blindly assume they will have air superiority everywhere

They DO have air superiority - just not currently used for shorter range weapons, because they're as high in the sky as they possibly can be without being seen or hit by RUS.

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#89
post #88
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

turns out things like Stingers/TOW/Javelin are extremely useful in proxy wars, where NATO doesn't want to put boots/planes in the area of operations. if NATO is so loss averse and doesnt want to risk own soldiers' lives, then NATO/US doctrine should plan for proxy wars - and not blindly assume they will have air superiority everywhere

They DO have air superiority - just not currently used for shorter range weapons, because they're as high in the sky as they possibly can be without being seen or hit by RUS.

US did not have air superiority in proxy wars in Syria nor in Ukraine.

Should the next proxy war happen in LATAM/Africa/ME - I am not sure US would rush to deploy air assets.

For example - Iran/China - would US create no fly zone over these countries?

Re: Raytheon asks retirees for help making new Stinger anti-air missiles

#90
post #89
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They DO have air superiority - just not currently used for shorter range weapons, because they're as high in the sky as they possibly can be without being seen or hit by RUS.

US did not have air superiority in proxy wars in Syria nor in Ukraine. Should the next proxy war happen in LATAM/Africa/ME - I am not sure US would rush to deploy air assets. For example - Iran/China - would US create no fly zone over these countries?

NATO absolutely has air superiority in Ukraine.

How they choose to exercise that is an exercise for you, the reader, whoever would like - not this comment.

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