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‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

theguardian.com

81–90 of 97 posts

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record people that transition, AT ALL AGES, overwhelmingly stay that way and do not regret their decision. * Here is the [*APA's policy statement*]( http://www.apa.org/about/policy/transgender.aspx ) on the necessity and efficacy of transition as the appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria. More from the APA [*here*]( http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/programs/transgender/?tab=1 ) * Here is an [*AMA resolution*](…

I'd strongly recommend anyone interested in this topic to find sources outside of the US. The foundation of these studies are largely dubious, consistent with the kind of replication crisis you see in the medical field. Throw activism into the mix and these sources are now biased towards certain outcomes. For those who lean left, I strongly recommend reading up on Hannah Barnes' book, "Time to Think". The UK and the…

> EU have deemed "gender-affirming care" experimental

This is a lie that Gender Critical people keep repeating, it is simply untrue. The EU continues to treat transgender children according to the same scientifically studied standards of care that they have in the past

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being intersex is very rare and unfortunate, and I am sympathetic to those with such birth defects. Agnes Torres was not intersex, she was merely classed as such which allowed her to live a normal life. Funny enough, your comment itself shows why this was successful. You see intersex as more legitimate and because of that you "give it a pass." Agnes Torres was transgender, but was treated as legitimate back in the…

I'm not sure what the situation is like now concerning prejudice towards trans people in the US, but looking from the outside, I'm aware of the incredible amount of bad faith coming from medical and activist organisations from within the US. For instance, any legitimate discussion or criticism about gender-affirming care, possible social cause that's driving the increase of trans-identifying teenagers (confounded by…

I think you're ideologically motivated, and arguing from a position of emotional distaste for trans people rather than unbiased concern about medical practice. Here's why:

> any legitimate discussion or criticism about gender-affirming care, possible social cause that's driving the increase of trans-identifying teenagers

Trans-identified is a term created by anti-trans activists initially as an "in joke" because calling someone a trans identified male or trans identified female created acronyms that spelled traditionally female and male names: TIM and TIF, where TIM would be applied to trans women and TIF would be applied to trans men. A group that is serious about improving the world wouldn't choose their terminology so as to make fun of or harass people. A hate group would.

> or how certain trans rights infringes on women's rights

It's not at all clear that trans rights infringe on women's rights. The right to segregate yourself from elements of the population that you find distasteful isn't guaranteed. Otherwise we'd still have Jim Crow laws in the American South and lesbians would still be barred from women's sports due to concerns about them being predatory in locker rooms - yes this was a big concern in the 1980's.

> the capture of cultural institutions by radical activists

This is conspiratorial thinking. "Institutions" are made up of individuals and operate under some guiding principles. They aren't captured like territories in a game of risk.

> This would also mean that statements made by countries that are arguably more progressive than the US (i.e. UK and European countries) about the current trans issue would fall into that category as well.

The UK and EU have different politics than the US. They are economically more egalitarian, but socially can be very conservative.

> it's hard to believe that the medical and activist organisations in the US are actually acting in good faith

Why would you conflate medical and activist organizations? Isn't it possible that you are the activist, and that you'd like to bend medical organizations to your will because they disagree with your own prejudices?

> Anyone of sound mind can clearly evaluate that my point isn't transphobic. The reply to this comment is a demonstration of what's wrong with the US.

Saying that nobody can disagree with you unless they are mentally unwell, and then calling someone who disagreed with you an example of "what's wrong with the US" is very odd behavior. It doesn't seem like the way someone operating in good faith would behave.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#83
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about children. Look at the charts here. [1] Why is the number of children experiencing this "gender dysphoria" skyrocketing? It should be linear, not exponential. There is a mental craze driving this, which is extremely profitable for the medical industry. This industry is preying on children to make a profit, justifying all the research on the small percentage of trans adults that actually need this tre…

> Why is the number of children experiencing this "gender dysphoria" skyrocketing because it's more socially acceptable to discuss these issues than it was 50 years ago...

that goes both ways though

it is also undoubtedly true that it is more rewarding on a political level to not have any doubt on these issues than it was just 10 years ago.

Entire careers have been built on it. On both sides.

But, incredibly enough, the ones on the "precaution" approach are on the far right side.

If we saw the same increase in cases of kids having mental health issues, which is also more socially acceptable to talk about than 50 years ago, we would be worried sick, we would ask why it happened and what caused it, not simply treat the symptoms and call it a definitve solution.

studies would also show that their life is better than when they were not treated, but is relying on anti depressants really a good life?

is asking the question proof that the person asking hates (or is phobic of), for some reason, people with mental health issues?

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A shallow dismissal, a perfectly reasonable argument against irreversible action for changing children’s genders is that many of them aren’t so sure as it seems and later want to transition back. About 2% want to transition back. 98% are quite sure, and are happy with being treated. Trans youth who are not treated tend to be miserable as adults, with many committing suicide since their bodies have been shaped by th…

If you're not ideologically invested in this topic and are sincerely interested in the truth, I'd urge you to look at your own country from an outsider's point of view. The point being, many sources in the US that were reputable (i.e. scientific american) are parroting misinformation about this topic in service of ideology. That much is obvious to someone who does not live in the anglo-sphere. To address your claims,…

> If you're not ideologically invested in this topic and are sincerely interested in the truth, I'd urge you to look at your own country from an outsider's point of view. The point being, many sources in the US that were reputable (i.e. scientific american) are parroting misinformation about this topic in service of ideology.

You've really been running wild in this comments section, as have I. I can see that we're both very interested in this topic, but from different sides.

What I'll point out here again, is that you continue to paint reputable organizations that disagree with you as "ideological" while maintaining yourself as some sort of unbiased outside observer. This is blatantly untrue.

You are the one trying to change the facts being reported by reputable sources. You are the activist who is engaged in a campaign of attempting to ideologically modify unbiased institutions.

I think the trans topic can really rile people up, and there's no shortage of think pieces of conspiracy theories about it. Same as has existed around lots of minority groups that caught the attention and ire of the larger public.

You aren't the unbiased observer however. You are an activist, and it shows in your writing.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A shallow dismissal, a perfectly reasonable argument against irreversible action for changing children’s genders is that many of them aren’t so sure as it seems and later want to transition back. About 2% want to transition back. 98% are quite sure, and are happy with being treated. Trans youth who are not treated tend to be miserable as adults, with many committing suicide since their bodies have been shaped by th…

Even assuming your study is true, the argument against irreversibly treating children is still a reasonable position and not the shallowly insulting straw man argument you present as the only option.

> the argument against irreversibly treating children is still a reasonable position

Allowing a trans child to go through their natal puberty is not a neutral act. A trans person who "passes" has a much better lifetime outcome thanks to facing less discrimination and having less body image issues (not many people living as females would enjoy being called a man in a dress and harassed regularly based on their body proportions regardless of their chromosomes).

> and not the shallowly insulting straw man argument you present as the only option.

It's not a shallow straw man. Anti-trans activists want to ban care for trans people outright. They want conversion therapy - or what they have slickly labled "gender exploratory therapy" - to be the only treatment available.

If we hadn't lived through many decades where such treatment was already the only option and seen how disastrous it was I may be less inclined to say they are acting in bad faith, but, alas, we know exactly what conversion therapy does: it creates incredibly traumatized adults who are still trans.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even assuming your study is true, the argument against irreversibly treating children is still a reasonable position and not the shallowly insulting straw man argument you present as the only option.

> the argument against irreversibly treating children is still a reasonable position Allowing a trans child to go through their natal puberty is not a neutral act. A trans person who "passes" has a much better lifetime outcome thanks to facing less discrimination and having less body image issues (not many people living as females would enjoy being called a man in a dress and harassed regularly based on their body pr…

All your arguments do not change the fact that it is still possible for reasonable people to simply disagree with you, and it is not a valid argument to put up straw men to take down, just like you’re doing again here, this time anyone against irreversible actions taken on children is claimed to be someone who ‘wants to ban care for trans people outright’.

If your arguments consist of assigning outrageous opinions to people you disagree with, your argument is invalid and you’re bound to be wrong.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A shallow dismissal, a perfectly reasonable argument against irreversible action for changing children’s genders is that many of them aren’t so sure as it seems and later want to transition back. About 2% want to transition back. 98% are quite sure, and are happy with being treated. Trans youth who are not treated tend to be miserable as adults, with many committing suicide since their bodies have been shaped by th…

If you're not ideologically invested in this topic and are sincerely interested in the truth, I'd urge you to look at your own country from an outsider's point of view. The point being, many sources in the US that were reputable (i.e. scientific american) are parroting misinformation about this topic in service of ideology. That much is obvious to someone who does not live in the anglo-sphere. To address your claims,…

Thanks for bringing this to attention. This book review seems like a good place to start: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/feb/19/time-to-think-...

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, Lupron has been used since the 1970's to treat precocious puberty and every single ban on using it for gender affirming care still allows it to be administered for that purpose. Medical associations also approve its use, in both cases. When the people against it are only against it for one group of people, and doctors by and large disagree with them, it makes me suspicious that their motives are not based in…

> only against it for one group of people People aren't against any group of people, they're against administering a damaging and potentially life-ruining treatment to perfectly healthy children.

You're perfectly happy to give it to cis kids, but not to trans ones. Why?

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#89

Puberty is an incredibly complicated process, involving innumerable intertwined signaling pathways, gene expression changes, physical and mental changes, etc. We are only beginning to understand it all; to think we can just "pause" it like an MP3 player is the height of hubris. These experimental treatments have many potential negative side effects, including osteoporosis and infertility. Teenagers who feel insecure…

> ... are being pressured and induced into ...

Citation needed.

Re: ‘Gay furries’ group hacks agencies in US states attacking gender-affirming care

#90

Puberty is an incredibly complicated process, involving innumerable intertwined signaling pathways, gene expression changes, physical and mental changes, etc. We are only beginning to understand it all; to think we can just "pause" it like an MP3 player is the height of hubris. These experimental treatments have many potential negative side effects, including osteoporosis and infertility. Teenagers who feel insecure…

For the record people that transition, AT ALL AGES, overwhelmingly stay that way and do not regret their decision. * Here is the [*APA's policy statement*]( http://www.apa.org/about/policy/transgender.aspx ) on the necessity and efficacy of transition as the appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria. More from the APA [*here*]( http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/programs/transgender/?tab=1 ) * Here is an [*AMA resolution*](…

There is research being promoted by the other side of the debate too... Unfortunately, once a scientific issue becomes politicised, it’s hard to know who can be trusted.
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