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Keeping Open Source Open

rockylinux.org

81–90 of 253 posts

Re: Keeping Open Source Open

#81
post #78

What is RHEL compatibility so important and why is it always such a hot topic?

Red Hat is like the 10,000 pound gorilla in the world of Enterprise Linux, and traditionally has walked a fine line (well, mind you) in bringing open source to the table against enterprise proprietary vendors.

Other open source competitors like SUSE and Canonical have much smaller revenues, so Red Hat could be seen as having a bit more influence over Linux's overall direction (they employ a ton of devs, they have a ton of resources). Case in point, the systemd controversy.

There's also a historic argument that one cannot trust FOSS in the hands of any corporation, but we start getting into more philosophical and nearly-religious debate at that point.

Re: Keeping Open Source Open

#82
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like Canonical asks for Ubuntu, and SUSE for SLE/Leap they make. Rocky/CIQ are not 'making' RHEL, ...

There was time today's big distros were small and they mostly took from community, packaged it and sold support for it. Rocky is small now so needs to take more from community. If it becomes big later it can also contribute back. That's one of the benefits of open source. It helps small guys to get started and make it big. Once they become big, they can contribute back.

> If it becomes big later it can also contribute back.

Contributing starts from day one https://old.reddit.com/r/redhat/comments/14jq5i7/red_hats_co...

You can't all of a sudden expect you to have gained respect and trust, just because you are part of something 'big'.

I'd appreciate a small community more when they reach out, to grow them, than for a big one to lend them a hand with the basics.

Re: Keeping Open Source Open

#83

> Moreover, Red Hat’s Terms of Service (TOS) and End User License Agreements (EULA) impose conditions that attempt to hinder legitimate customers from exercising their rights as guaranteed by the GPL. Does someone have more details on this?

I wrote this a couple days ago, sums it up: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/gplv2-red-hat-and-you

tl;dr - GPLv2 requires no restriction on free/paid recipients of binaries to also freely redistribute source code. Red Hat EULA says your subscription will be canceled if you redistribute the source code. Is that a restriction?

A couple OSS laywers I spoke to said no. Common sense says it feels an awful lot like intimidation to effectively keep their product proprietary (what Fortune 500 company would like to have their Red Hat servers all go dead because some employee downloaded sources and uploaded them somewhere?)

Re: Keeping Open Source Open

#84
post #39
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public cloud route is pretty elegant. Red Hat is restricting source code to subscribers only, so Rocky contributors will just subscribe for an hour at a time when they need to download source code. There’s no way for Red Hat to stop this without terminating all public cloud licensing everywhere.

I'm not a lawyer, but that's definitely not their only recourse here. Lawyers are not going to look at this coordinated attempt to subvert a EULA and say "oh well, nothing we can do here".

>Lawyers are not going to look at this coordinated attempt to subvert a EULA and say "oh well, nothing we can do here".

Once you get lawyers involved, you lose a lot of goodwill. At that point, who can tell RH apart from Oracle?

Re: Keeping Open Source Open

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CentOS? A usable downstream distribution? Further: https://forums.rockylinux.org/t/has-red-hat-just-killed-rock...

Really? Some images, bug reports, and internal build tools. What new software or features have Rocky contributed to the community they can't keep talking about? I side with RH here because I personally, every day, use a lot of software they've made available. That takes time, effort, and money. Heck, you personally benefit immensely from an acquisition they subsequently open sourced. When Rocky has something that's a…

> Heck, you personally benefit immensely from an acquisition they subsequently open sourced.

lolwut?

Re: Keeping Open Source Open

#86
When I was at IBM and RedHat did the "CentOS"-move, IBM-execs was actually pretty pissed off. It was bad optics and RedHat did it on their own, while IBM got "the blame". This is probably more of the same stuff. They think they can get away with being asshats and people will just blame IBM.

We see you, RedHat. You are NOT on the right path.

Re: Keeping Open Source Open

#87
Free.

That word does not appear at all in TFA.

In the IBM/RH blog post it references[1] the word appears once, disparagingly, in the gratis sense.

I appreciate the beer / speech distinction can get tiring to explain repeatedly, but it feels like the move to distance themselves from the deeper implications & obligations of free is, shall we say, very carefully calculated.

[1] https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hats-commitment-open-sour...

Re: Keeping Open Source Open

#88
There’s one thing I don’t understand. They keep saying GPL this, GPL that.

Meanwhile there has been this huge push to use permissive licenses for like two decades now, because GPL bad (you don’t have to go far, just look at any discussion around licensing here on HN).

There’s nothing in .spec files that says they have the same license as the software they cover. Fedora contributions are required to come with a MIT-like license.

So you have quite a small core of software under GPL — the kernel, glibc, coreutils, gcc, binutils, make… and not even the darling of security advisories, OpenSSL. Thanks to incessant corporate PR against GPL, the GPL-based software base is shrinking slowly but steadily. That Rust-based coreutils replacement? MIT.

Re: Keeping Open Source Open

#89
On another topic, we can finally see the motivation behind those SRPMs.

The whole purpose of a SRPM is to take some upstream source code and repackage it into a different archive blob which has to be downloaded in its entirety and unpacked in order to determine whether any of the code is patched, or pure upstream.

If, instead of a SRPM, you have some small, declarative text file which gives upstream URLs, SHA256 digests and build config steps, then that tiny declarative text file is all that someone needs from you to clone that package in their own distro, exactly The amount of material needed to repro your whole distro goes something like from gigabytes to megabytes.

I mean, think about it. There is such a little declarative piece there in the process: the RPM spec file. Now, normally we think about building binaries from sources. But under RPM, you "build" source packages too! It's an obfuscation step intended to make people dependent on your way of handling sources.

Re: Keeping Open Source Open

#90
What exactly prevents Red Hat from adding one or more proprietary components, like a RHEL bootloader, or network manager and simply refusing to share the code for those components?

If Red Hat doesn't back down, I don't see anyway around Rocky, Oracle and Alma doing a fork.

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