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240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

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Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#81

Post by Analemma_ »

knodi123 wrote: post #72

It's super frustrating that if I want a 2nd charger for my macbook pro, I have to either buy an overpriced apple adapter, or.... what? I haven't seen any USB-C compatible 140W chargers that are significantly cheaper than apple's.... but I can't charge my laptop with less. If I plug in my 80w charger, my laptop just goes "bong bong bong" as it turns charging on and off endlessly.

How much is a 140W charger supposed to cost? That's a nontrivial amount of power for something which needs to support multiple voltages: there needs to be thermal management and safety circuitry to match; it's not "just a bigger 5W charger". As another commenter mentioned, Anker's 140W charger is not much cheaper than Apple's.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#82

Post by Kirby64 »

rektide wrote: post #26
CoastalCoder wrote: post #7

Is it possible for a (laptop + USB-C PD power charger) to support multiple charging rates? My Lenovo Legion 5 has a 300W charger. Caveats: (a) I'm not sure if that's input power or output power; and (b) it's not a USB-C PD connector , but my question isn't specific to this laptop. Airplane A/C power outlets aren't willing to deliver that much power. And even if I was willing to slow-charge the laptop on an airplane o…

Great ask. There's no reason devices couldn't negotiate lower power. With USB-PD, power sources offer Power Delivery Objects: different charge modes they can do. It's up to devices to pick. Right now most devices pick the highest power option (that they can handle). For a variety of reasons, it would be super sweet if we could pick lower power options! Maybe it's a multi-device charger & you want to leave more capaci…

Notably, depending on the device, it may not actually pick the highest option it could handle. It may automatically adjust the voltage over time (state of charge, usually, dictates this) to compensate.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#83

Post by Sakos »

Reason077 wrote: post #58
_trampeltier wrote: post #49

On one side, I like the idea (and I use it a lot) with USB C to power a notebook. I have a small 65W travel adapter and I can charge my beefy HP Z-Book (it even works with a 45W adapter) or my smaller Fujitsu U939. But both notebooks still have real charging ports too and normaly I use those. A real charging port are much less fragile when moving the notebook while plugged in. USB C is very fragile and it is an very,…

> ”USB C is very fragile” Is it? I’ve been using USB-C Macs since 2017 and I’ve never had any broken ports, despite some significant abuses (cable trips, grime in the port, etc). A few worn out cables, and failed chargers, maybe… but no problems on the laptop itself.

According to my technician friends, yes. Apparently on most devices, USB-C ports are much less robustly attached than USB-A and are more prone to failure. Just because it's fine on Macs doesn't mean it's fine everywhere else.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#84

Post by rektide »

nfriedly wrote: post #78
rektide wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The usb-c connector is rated to 5 Amps (A). Usb-c went up to 20V already. 5A * 20V = 100W (where we are). We didn't want to change the connector. So we are stuck at 5A. But we can raise voltage & still have some margin. So voltage was raised to 48V. 5A * 48V = 240W. As for raising the voltage more, it's likely very technically feasible, but probably not, for safety reasons. There are various levels of what is conside…

> When plugged in, it's in a very limited 5V state. Depending on what's on the other end, it's actually even better than that would imply most of the time. If both sides of the cable are in spec-compliant USB-C ports, then the power pins will be left at 0v for the initial connection, and only the CC pins will have a minuscule amount of power coming from the source (charger) - just enough to detect specific levels of…

> The reason some cheep chineese electronics with USB-C connectors can only charge with USB-A to USB-C cables, not with USB-C to USB-C cables is that they skipped the CC pins entirely.

If anyone has a usb-c pass through adapter that can negotiate for 5v out, please please please share. Ideally for me it'd be a like 3 inch cable that that a male & female connector.

Extra credit if it uses usb-pd to try to ask for 5v 5a.

(these would be incredibly out of spec & could cause damage to systems, but mercy they'd be useful! I find this problem to happen on a bunch of devices, alas not just cheap/rare ones)

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#85

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

LukeShu wrote: post #73
kitsunesoba wrote: post #61

I wonder if we'll start seeing devices other than laptops that currently use barrel jacks for power shift to USB-C. 240W covers the vast majority of things even an enthusiast might have on their desk. It'd be nice if they did, if only because there's a single agreed upon way to deliver power with USB-PD, and USB-PD bricks hash out the details with the connected device to deliver appropriate power. It's a considerably…

Already happening. My soldering iron, pimple-popper camera, and toy lightsaber all take USB-C. Though the lightsaber isn't compliant and just wired up the power and ground pins from the USB connector with no more complexity than barrel jack, rather than doing the proper USB-C/PD things to indicate how much power it can take, so some cables/chargers won't even give it anything.

>pimple-popper camera

Excuse me but, what?!

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#86

Post by ianburrell »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #61

I wonder if we'll start seeing devices other than laptops that currently use barrel jacks for power shift to USB-C. 240W covers the vast majority of things even an enthusiast might have on their desk. It'd be nice if they did, if only because there's a single agreed upon way to deliver power with USB-PD, and USB-PD bricks hash out the details with the connected device to deliver appropriate power. It's a considerably…

I had idea of making adapters that have barrel jack on one side and USB-C port on the other. The 5V ones would be easier but would need ones for different voltages, which would either need USB-PD PPS or transformer in the adapter. They would currently be expensive and only for people who really hate wall warts. The other problem is that multi-port USB-C chargers are rare and expensive.

My impression is that most devices with barrel ports don't use that much power and would be fine without USB-PD. They use barrel ports because they were designed before USB-C or because USB-C port is too expensive. I supsect many would be fine with USB-C to USB-A cable and charger.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#87

Post by dokem »

0xCMP wrote: post #51
nrp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The size of these kinds of high wattage passively cooled power adapters is dictated less by component density and more by what you can spread and dissipate through the enclosure with safe touch temperatures.

And with the new solid state cooling tech that is just now starting to be rolled out I imagine in a few years some power supplies will be actively cooled.

That doesn't mean you have any less heat to dissipate.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#88

Post by LukeShu »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #85
LukeShu wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already happening. My soldering iron, pimple-popper camera, and toy lightsaber all take USB-C. Though the lightsaber isn't compliant and just wired up the power and ground pins from the USB connector with no more complexity than barrel jack, rather than doing the proper USB-C/PD things to indicate how much power it can take, so some cables/chargers won't even give it anything.

>pimple-popper camera Excuse me but, what?!

Specifically, this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09HTWH46C/ It's much easier than trying to hold a mirror with one hand so I can see what I'm doing with the other hand.

Re: 240W USB-C PD chargers are nearly here, says Framework CEO

#90

Post by jjoonathan »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #85
LukeShu wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already happening. My soldering iron, pimple-popper camera, and toy lightsaber all take USB-C. Though the lightsaber isn't compliant and just wired up the power and ground pins from the USB connector with no more complexity than barrel jack, rather than doing the proper USB-C/PD things to indicate how much power it can take, so some cables/chargers won't even give it anything.

>pimple-popper camera Excuse me but, what?!

I'm afraid to google it because then my ads will be nothing but skin conditions for weeks.
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