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Re: undefined

#81

Post by foobarbecue »

joshmanders wrote: post #12
l__l wrote: post #7

> Today's developers didn't learn binary before learning Python, why should you learn how to code without the most modern tools? This phrasing makes me wary. There's a difference between being self-taught, and not even bothering to teach yourself the absolute fundamentals of computing, like binary...

Learning binary and knowing what binary is are two separate things. I don't think you need to learn binary to learn to code. Been doing this for 25 years working at some big name companies, I don't know binary other than 1 is on, 0 is off. I'm starting to feel like this whole notion that newbies can't come in and learn say React or modern JavaScript without having to go all the way back to that day in 1995 when they…

So when you're reading code and you get to a bitmask... what do you do?

Re: undefined

#82

Post by Hirrolot »

tensor wrote: post #63
joshmanders wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning binary and knowing what binary is are two separate things. I don't think you need to learn binary to learn to code. Been doing this for 25 years working at some big name companies, I don't know binary other than 1 is on, 0 is off. I'm starting to feel like this whole notion that newbies can't come in and learn say React or modern JavaScript without having to go all the way back to that day in 1995 when they…

I've literally had to use knowledge of binary and number representation just last month in order to implement a lower level protocol. You may not use it in your simple CRUD app jobs but it's absolutely not "some old thing people only had to use back in the day."

I occasionally have to manipulate binary numbers too. But, aside from bitwise operations, I almost always forget what I had learned last time and have to re-read the material again.

Re: undefined

#83

Post by mynameisvlad »

Kalium wrote: post #71
mynameisvlad wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's probably not obvious to most people who don't already know about it that their computer can handle numbers wrong. 0.1+0.2=0.30000000000004 is not obvious? When a floating point error happens, it’s quite plainly obvious. At that point, someone would look up a SO article like https://stackoverflow.com/questions/588004/is-floating-point... and learn about it. And from there, FPE mitigations. Would you get to the…

Most manifestations will be in the middle of something more nuanced than a demo statement, the people in question will often lack the vocabulary to describe what they're seeing, and it's rarely anyone's first or even fifth thought that addition is going wonky. With that in mind, I think it's perhaps a stretch to call floating point error plainly obvious. You're right, of course. This would be only marginally faster i…

The example is overly simplified, sure. But even if it’s in the middle of a swath of other operations, it will still result in very similar behavior. You’re likely never to get a clean number once a floating point error happens, and the result will be slightly off and seem to not be rounded.

Searching “why is my arithmetic operation not rounded”, I got https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/floatingpoint.html as the third answer. I obviously can’t unlearn what floating point arithmetic is, but it feels like someone without any knowledge of it would likely be able to get a similar result relatively quickly as long as they are good at searching for answers (a much more important skill, IMO, which should be considered foundational)

> That said, there's a large swath of very similar things that crop up where the person benefits from a familiarity with the fundamentals of computing.

We’re talking specifically about binary, not fundamentals in general. Some fundamental knowledge is more important than others, and I posit that binary is on the lower end of that spectrum.

Re: undefined

#84

Post by [deleted] »

plondon514 wrote: post #4

Hello HN! I started this project a few years ago when I was unfortunately rejected by Codecademy for a software engineering position for the 3rd time. I love coding, and I love helping others learn to code. In my spare time I volunteer at Justice Through Code ( https://centerforjustice.columbia.edu/justicethroughcode ), which helps previously incarcerated people re-enter the workforce. If you're passionate about help…

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#85

Post by mynameisvlad »

robinduckett wrote: post #23
joshmanders wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning binary and knowing what binary is are two separate things. I don't think you need to learn binary to learn to code. Been doing this for 25 years working at some big name companies, I don't know binary other than 1 is on, 0 is off. I'm starting to feel like this whole notion that newbies can't come in and learn say React or modern JavaScript without having to go all the way back to that day in 1995 when they…

Let’s hope you never have to parse an archaic binary format then

Most people, in fact, do not have to do this. That’s an exceptionally rare thing to do that I would estimate a fraction of a percent of developers will ever encounter.

Re: undefined

#86

Post by LoganDark »

Kalium wrote: post #42
joshmanders wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found in my years mentoring and teaching that showing something is much better at keeping them learning and interested than "Sit down and read 30 years of out dated documentation and coding practices just so you can feel the pain and agony I had, then and only then when you've proven yourself can you spit out that hello world on the screen, filthy scum!" Give them a codepen with modern React already bootstrapped…

You're completely right. That's a wonderfully kind, empathetic, and compassionate approach that's incredibly effective for teaching people what kind of power they are starting to have access to. I've found it's also one that is very expensive as measured by instructional time and energy. I've also found it relatively ineffectual for teaching fundamentals. I do not have to lecture someone about how they are unworthy a…

> Do you think it's perhaps possible that people benefit from both a solid grasp of the often-boring fundamentals as well as feeling the joy of tinkering?

I don't think they were explicitly excluding the former, but rather saying it's important to get someone interested before they even become interested in learning the fundamentals.

Re: undefined

#87

Post by kazinator »

amanj41 wrote: post #73
eulers_secret wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any recent figures for job placement? The market is very tough right now, and even well qualified seniors can’t find work. The general consensus is if you don’t have a degree you shouldn’t even bother (unless you have many YoE, then only maybe) and should go to college or leave the industry. Is that true in your experience?

Most companies don't let you interview more than once per year or once every six months, so if he/she has been rejected three times, I would expect their earliest interview to be over 1.5 years ago

I've never heard of this rule. If a company has three positions, for which 15 equally excellent candidates are shortlisted, and then three months later another position opens up, one of the remaining 12 will have a shot at it. (Of course, the not-shortlisted ones, not likely.)

Re: undefined

#88

Post by foobarbecue »

joshmanders wrote: post #67
tensor wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've literally had to use knowledge of binary and number representation just last month in order to implement a lower level protocol. You may not use it in your simple CRUD app jobs but it's absolutely not "some old thing people only had to use back in the day."

> You may not use it in your simple CRUD app jobs but it's absolutely not "some old thing people only had to use back in the day." My point is that most jobs are simple CRUD app jobs or positioning divs on a screen, not deep seeded CS stuff.

FYI https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/deep-seated-de...

Re: undefined

#90

Post by bamfly »

Hirrolot wrote: post #82
tensor wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've literally had to use knowledge of binary and number representation just last month in order to implement a lower level protocol. You may not use it in your simple CRUD app jobs but it's absolutely not "some old thing people only had to use back in the day."

I occasionally have to manipulate binary numbers too. But, aside from bitwise operations, I almost always forget what I had learned last time and have to re-read the material again.

I've gotten to use bitwise operations like twice in a 20-year career.

Trivial applications of things that might go in the first couple weeks of an algo class, about the same rate of use.

I always get a little excited when I get to use those things. Like spotting an old acquaintance in a restaurant in another city. "Hey! It's that thing they said was really important but in fact my career would basically be identical if I never learned it at all! Long time no see!"

[EDIT] Still waiting to use math past what I learned in 6th grade, aside from extremely rare use of very simple linear algebra or plugging in stats formulas that I looked up anyway because I don't trust my recollection since I use them so rarely. Doubting I'll even once need any of it before I retire, at this point. Which is great, because I've entirely forgotten all of it, on account of never needing it.

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