Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

France legalizes remote camera and microphone activation in smartphones

francetvinfo.fr

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 123 posts

Re: France legalizes remote camera and microphone activation in smartphones

#81

Post by joshstrange »

donkeyd wrote: post #45
krzys wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those privacy-breaching bills are for the safety of the government, not citizens.

Having worked in law enforcement, seeing sentiment like this is just so depressing. On one side it's people saying things like this, while on the other side a large part is complaining about law enforcement not doing enough to combat cyber crime. These things go hand in hand. If criminals can have limitless access to new technologies, but LE gets no new ways of finding criminals using new technologies, we might as we…

LE has already proved hilariously inept and lazy at using the tools already available to them and you want more? Tools that have a history of being horribly abused? Yeah no.

LE barely solves basic crimes where a citizen can say "This person here, they stole my X, it has tracking and I know right where they are", why on earth would we give you more "toys" to invade our privacy and still not do your damn jobs.

In it's current state (arguably since inception) LE exists to protect the rich and powerful, the common citizen would be stupid (and/or horribly brainwashed) to give LE more tools at this current time.

Remove qualified immunity, make it your job to actually serve and protect and maybe we can talk.

Re: France legalizes remote camera and microphone activation in smartphones

#82

Post by [deleted] »

donkeyd wrote: post #45
krzys wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those privacy-breaching bills are for the safety of the government, not citizens.

Having worked in law enforcement, seeing sentiment like this is just so depressing. On one side it's people saying things like this, while on the other side a large part is complaining about law enforcement not doing enough to combat cyber crime. These things go hand in hand. If criminals can have limitless access to new technologies, but LE gets no new ways of finding criminals using new technologies, we might as we…

[deleted]

Re: France legalizes remote camera and microphone activation in smartphones

#83

Post by npteljes »

donkeyd wrote: post #45
krzys wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those privacy-breaching bills are for the safety of the government, not citizens.

Having worked in law enforcement, seeing sentiment like this is just so depressing. On one side it's people saying things like this, while on the other side a large part is complaining about law enforcement not doing enough to combat cyber crime. These things go hand in hand. If criminals can have limitless access to new technologies, but LE gets no new ways of finding criminals using new technologies, we might as we…

The issue is that even after measures like this, criminals still have limitless access to new technologies. Meanwhile, we also introduced a huge opportunity for the powerful to attack the powerless.

On the other hand, I do understand the government need to control the "e-space" so to speak; and I'm now lumping in here every form of internet control too. If a government ignores to control a popular information channel like the internet (or the radio, television, etc), powers that seek to replace the government will take root there and coordinate weakening them. So if they don't control it, others will, and that's not necessarily good for the people either. So, it's only natural that after a new form of communication is created, that regulation will come soon after that extends government control over it.

Re: France legalizes remote camera and microphone activation in smartphones

#84

Post by Aunche »

wkat4242 wrote: post #60
soco wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The french population is indeed concerned by the increasing of the pension age, but not concerned at all with the price paid by their own children for not increasing it. So I wouldn't call the concerns of the population necessarily legitimate, as present and pressing as they might be.

But if the public is ok with paying this despite the increasing cost, why block them? France has some of the best welfare in the world and from what I hear from my French friends they're not opposed to paying for it, unlike more neoliberal countries where tax is a swear word.

The public isn't ok with paying for it though. They only want to receive it. The yellow vests were protesting a level of taxation that couldn't sustain the pensions, let alone one that can.

Re: France legalizes remote camera and microphone activation in smartphones

#85

Post by vitehozonage »

donkeyd wrote: post #45
krzys wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those privacy-breaching bills are for the safety of the government, not citizens.

Having worked in law enforcement, seeing sentiment like this is just so depressing. On one side it's people saying things like this, while on the other side a large part is complaining about law enforcement not doing enough to combat cyber crime. These things go hand in hand. If criminals can have limitless access to new technologies, but LE gets no new ways of finding criminals using new technologies, we might as we…

All of these laws are always absolutely useless against serious criminals.

Outlawing technology doesnt work, because they will break laws, use open source code and not trust closed source code. For example, if you outlaw encrypted apps like Signal, they will simply use open source tools like PGP, which you cannot take away. However, the average non-technical citizen will suffer serious hacks because they actually obey the law and won't use the secure technology.

Likewise, in this case a serious criminal will use a phone with no microphone/camera or put it in a faraday bag, if they even use a phone at all at sensitive times. Meanwhile, the average citizen needs to constantly feel a chilling sense of being watched literally the same as in 1984.

Re: France legalizes remote camera and microphone activation in smartphones

#86

Post by detaro »

Hamuko wrote: post #79
RobotToaster wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's infuriating is that it would be trivial to make it linked to the same power supply in hardware. It's obviously done that way on purpose.

The privacy indicator on iPhones is just a green dot on the display. I don't think that's really possible to link to the same power supply. It'd have to be a separate light like on MacBooks. (Thankfully MacBooks do at least physically disconnect the microphones if you close the lid.)

It could be independent of the OS software if it were a design goal (e.g. in safety-critical applications you sometimes have display controllers that have dedicated hardware layers for important indicators that are driven independently of the main display feed, something Apple could easily replicate given their level of integration)

And of course it doesn't have to be on the display, given they already have a cutout island in the display where they could place such a thing.

Re: France legalizes remote camera and microphone activation in smartphones

#87

Post by PrimeMcFly »

I understand that the headline is wrong, but it doesn't matter, because one day it might not be.

I need to have a phone that can protect against this, because it doesn't matter if it's a state doing it with a warrant or a talented hacker - either case is unacceptable to me.

So far a FairPhone running DivestOS and only trusted software via F-Droid is the best solution I have found. GrapheneOS on a Pixel is nice, but I don't want Google hardware if I'm not trusting their software.

Re: France legalizes remote camera and microphone activation in smartphones

#88

Post by hejcloud »

donkeyd wrote: post #45
krzys wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those privacy-breaching bills are for the safety of the government, not citizens.

Having worked in law enforcement, seeing sentiment like this is just so depressing. On one side it's people saying things like this, while on the other side a large part is complaining about law enforcement not doing enough to combat cyber crime. These things go hand in hand. If criminals can have limitless access to new technologies, but LE gets no new ways of finding criminals using new technologies, we might as we…

LE should have tools to enforce the law, no question.

However, there's a huge difference between (a) setting up means for spying on 100% of the people and (b) developing operational excellence in LE to be able to follow individual cases.

Usually the path of (a) is followed because of mental laziness of politicians, assumed cost-saving, lobbying by some companies who want to sell their LE Big Data product and BS megalomania. Citizens have to stand up and fight against getting criminalized.

Re: France legalizes remote camera and microphone activation in smartphones

#89

Post by asne11 »

impyamin wrote: post #19
unsupp0rted wrote: post #9

> "[...] which would be reserved for cases of terrorism, delinquency and organized crime." Because of course it will

Lel Yeah with our current president you are considered a terrorist threat the moment you shitpost on twitter so no risk at all

Is the gov kicking down doors for shit posters?

Re: France legalizes remote camera and microphone activation in smartphones

#90

Post by balderdash »

donkeyd wrote: post #45
krzys wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those privacy-breaching bills are for the safety of the government, not citizens.

Having worked in law enforcement, seeing sentiment like this is just so depressing. On one side it's people saying things like this, while on the other side a large part is complaining about law enforcement not doing enough to combat cyber crime. These things go hand in hand. If criminals can have limitless access to new technologies, but LE gets no new ways of finding criminals using new technologies, we might as we…

1) LE has repeatedly shown that new policing powers will be used illegally, and without repercussion for their misuse. When the abuses are curbed and punished, perhaps they can be trusted with new shiny things.

2) between geolocation tracking, sting rays, ALPRs, phone/internet/email/web history providers subpoenas, doorbell cameras, face recognition, FISA/national security mass surveillance, drones, etc. one is supposed to believe that LE does not have the technological tools to do their job?

Post reply on HN