Someone played too much SimCity 2000
From memory they were $28k, plus renewal every 50 years. Just don't put them downtown
Japan will try to beam solar power from space by 2025
81–90 of 98 posts
Re: Japan will try to beam solar power from space by 2025
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sahara Desert is terrible for solar panels, and is why so many researchers are experimenting with molten salt and superheated steam. Solar panels lose efficiency when hot. The best locations are sunny but cool, like Germany. Not deserts
Man, there's got to be some passive cooling Einstein-Szilard hijinks that could be gotten on the backside of those hot-climate panels. Seems like a pity if not . . although, devil's advocate, solar viability more or less hinges on dirt-cheap panels, and having some kind of whiz-bang passive cooling on the backside is going to screw with that a whole bunch.
I dunno.
Solar power is solar power. I don't care if it's a bunch of mirrors pointed at molten salt, or if it's from a silicon panel. What I only really care about is efficacy, efficiency, and power numbers.
The mirrors and salt thing is surprisingly doable. There's a few plants in various deserts that prove it to be cost effective.
Re: Japan will try to beam solar power from space by 2025
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's what they said about leaded gasoline and asbestus. We do not know, it might cause cancer.
It probably would in case you spent significant amounts of time between the transmitters but that should be pretty easy to avoid.
Yes if you climb the barb wire fence and ignore the "keep out" signs and then put up a tent and sleep there for a year you will probably slightly increase your chance of getting cancer.
Re: Japan will try to beam solar power from space by 2025
#84Is it a good idea to put more solar irradiation onto Earth than we already have? I thought climate change was due to us causing accumulation of solar that would otherwise diffuse into space.
Assuming they're not shading Earth, robbing someone else of sun. Are they? Is Mr Burns' solar blackout machine becoming a thing?
Re: Japan will try to beam solar power from space by 2025
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
And you can pump water up the mountain using solar in the day and use it in the night and on rainy days.
Yes, pumped Hydro is good. But in practice, seems to only store energy for "days", not "months". Furthermore, water restrictions (especially in the West) force the dams to release water even when electricity isn't needed. Because people need water to drink. A dam can serve multiple masters... but one of those masters will take priority. In most cases, water-rights will take priority over energy storage. That is to sa…
There's a distinction between pumped hydro on a river and when it uses two artificial basins. The second does not have the water rights problem.
Re: Japan will try to beam solar power from space by 2025
#86I’m no rocket scientist but surely it’s cheaper to build more panels and batteries on Earth? Launching stuff into orbit is expensive in cash and emissions.
Japan's getting creative since they currently important a large amount of their energy in the form of fuels on ships.
That is not gonna last if they want to continue decarbonizing.
They are averse to nuclear, they are an island, and they don't have a great relationship with most of their neighbours from whom they could import electricity directly. So instead they have crazy things like this and hydrogen.
Re: Japan will try to beam solar power from space by 2025
#87Is it a good idea to put more solar irradiation onto Earth than we already have? I thought climate change was due to us causing accumulation of solar that would otherwise diffuse into space. Assuming they're not shading Earth, robbing someone else of sun. Are they? Is Mr Burns' solar blackout machine becoming a thing?
I guess depends what wavelengths are used. If it is something not absorbed by the atmosphere then the argument is moot. I think some microwave lengths for the bill.
Re: Japan will try to beam solar power from space by 2025
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
The beams could be quite narrow. We did the calculations in a course I took and from what I recall, all of America's power could be compressed to a 15 meter beam. So they could probably just setup a no fly zone around the beam. Birds might still be a problem, but don't the alternatives (e.g. wind power) already kill birds?
Lets say Im not very interested in practicality but just the theory of this. How does it work? How can I send power from one side of my room to the other if I don't care about paying more.
Unfortunately, it's been too long for me to speak with authority on the specifics of what energy levels would be safe to do that for. However, from what I recall, in general there shouldn't be anything preventing that at reasonably low power levels. You could also use something like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waveguide_(radio_frequency)
Re: Japan will try to beam solar power from space by 2025
#89Lots of doubt. But don't doubt this: anybody who bets against orbital solar will lose, and it won't take long. The costs are all going in the direction to make space-based solar the winning option.
> The costs are all going in the direction to make space-based solar the winning option Citation needed. I'd especially like to see the calculation against the launch costs and the expected lifetimes of solar cells.
Really? We need to cite the worldwide phenomenon of drastically reducing lift costs? Astronomical growth in cheap thin solar panels? Rising real estate prices?
No. No I'm not going to dignify this with a 'citation'.
Re: Japan will try to beam solar power from space by 2025
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's probably an exaggeration by this time. Lift costs are decreasing geometrically. Solar efficiency is going up constantly. Land and eminent domain groundside continue to go up. All the variables are moving in the direction to benefit orbital solar, and will continue to go that way. It's not so much a matter of whether it's cheaper in space, than when it is cheaper in space. And it won't be long now.
Every reduction in solar cost makes it more efficient to buy panels on earth. The installation cost for space is so much more than the installation cost for earth. Even at 10x the cost, which is orders of magnitude off, what do we have? We have a system in space at 10 the cost that needs a solar array sized receiving plant (double the cost) and has transmission losses (increase size of space and ground installations…
Those are the numbers that are changing. Transmission losses have become fairly tiny. The 'ludicrous proposition' is similar to the turn-of-the-century folk who yelled 'get a horse!'