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A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

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Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#81

Post by okal »

mschuster91 wrote: post #72
oefrha wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Propaganda’s working very well if you actually believe this is the first war since WWII to redraw land borders. And I’m not even counting the invade-and-install-a-puppet kind of wars.

> Propaganda’s working very well if you actually believe this is the first war since WWII to redraw land borders. I was talking about annexation wars. Not about countries fighting for independence / collapse aftermaths (like the former Yugoslavian countries or the Vietnam war). But yes, you're correct, I forgot about the first Iraq war where Iraq tried to annex Kuwait and the US (and others) responded under UNSC auth…

The annexations, and proxy wars in Africa weren't relevant?

I'm struggling a little to reconcile your two statements, that you simultaneously don't have much knowledge about the situation, but seemingly enough to decide that the deaths of thousands/millions of people in proxy wars is irrelevant to the discussion.

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#83

Post by chaosbolt »

mschuster91 wrote: post #30
lifewallet_dev wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is propaganda and you don't even know it... People get silenced in the US every day because they have a different opinions on current events, for example the US proxy war with Russia. I always noticed when certain amount of decades pass it's okay to say certain things, like "Allende was assassinated by the CIA", but back then you'd get persecuted to even mention that. Yes, when it doesn't matter you can say what…

> People get silenced in the US every day because they have a different opinions on current events, for example the US proxy war with Russia. Uh, sorry what? It was Russia that decided to invade a sovereign country for annexation. Not the other way around. And of course everyone is free to disagree with your take. You are not being "silenced" or "canceled", you are being told your opinion is completely contrary to fa…

Yes Russia did invade Ukraine, but wouldn't the US invade Canada if Russia had organized a coup there to get rid of Trudeau then put a Russian puppet there? Of course the US would... Or would you argue that the 2014 Ukrainian coup wasn't supported by the US?

The thing we never mention is how agressive Nato (the US since it has military bases in Turkey for example, while Turkey doesn't have military bases in the US) has been at pushing its borders towards Russia.

In the end we can call this whatever we want, the facts are clear, if Zelensky had resigned less Ukrainians would have died, and the only ones profiting from this are the US, you can't fight a country like Russia, they have 7000 nukes, it's like thinking Mike Tyson is losing against you because he's too nice to punch you in the face... eventually he will.

The arguments used today are the same as ever (we're freeing the Vietnamese, the Iraqis, etc.), if you look at it as it really is, less dead people is better than more dead people, eventually Ukraine will be destroyed and the US will not even help to rebuild it, if you think they will then look at Iraq.

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#84

Post by serallak »

Something I do not understand ...

From the link:

> But its 1946 debut reflected a delay of more than a decade by the country’s real dictators, who disrupted the novel’s genesis and sent its author into exile. And in this act of suppression, Asturias’s censors and exilers were aided by the US, specifically the CIA.

From Wikipedia: the CIA was founded September 18, 1947.

How did the CIA "specifically" helped delay the publication of this book from 1936 to 1946 if it didn't even exist in that time frame ?

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#85

Post by wahnfrieden »

ptsneves wrote: post #74
somenameforme wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO information doesn't have the impact most people think it does. It seems to play much more of a role in shaping long-term views rather than driving immediate short-term responses. One would have expected the Snowden revelations to trigger a monumental response. They did not, and so a cynic might say people mostly didn't care. But that also seems wrong. Rather it seems to have played (and is playing) a significant…

Really nice insight: > So the point I'd make with this is that information itself is something that should be free. Because it shapes views. Where things get dodgy is in 'inorganic' organizing and promotion. It is this that I would like journalists and even states to protect the people against. Not censor but a nice little banner like Youtube and Twitter saying this media comes from and is part of a campaign. In that…

The US employs the largest psyop operations investment in the world, why would you trust the government to manage info authenticity and integrity for the public?

I can see the allure of a parental figure where the state makes sure its citizens are protected from bad stuff but I think you’ve got it backwards, it’s the state itself which is not only bad but has all the power and leverage for that badness to materialize itself. Unfortunately it’s not so simple when you want to give all the power to a group to wield over you, you’ll find they’re more interested in that power than protecting you with it even if they’re peformative about it

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#86

Post by Ruthe »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #85
ptsneves wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really nice insight: > So the point I'd make with this is that information itself is something that should be free. Because it shapes views. Where things get dodgy is in 'inorganic' organizing and promotion. It is this that I would like journalists and even states to protect the people against. Not censor but a nice little banner like Youtube and Twitter saying this media comes from and is part of a campaign. In that…

The US employs the largest psyop operations investment in the world, why would you trust the government to manage info authenticity and integrity for the public? I can see the allure of a parental figure where the state makes sure its citizens are protected from bad stuff but I think you’ve got it backwards, it’s the state itself which is not only bad but has all the power and leverage for that badness to materialize…

[dead]

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#87

Post by [deleted] »

serallak wrote: post #84

Something I do not understand ... From the link: > But its 1946 debut reflected a delay of more than a decade by the country’s real dictators, who disrupted the novel’s genesis and sent its author into exile. And in this act of suppression, Asturias’s censors and exilers were aided by the US, specifically the CIA. From Wikipedia: the CIA was founded September 18, 1947. How did the CIA "specifically" helped delay the…

[deleted]

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#88

Post by berdario »

_kbh_ wrote: post #68
berdario wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you don't "end up in jail in the west". First they freeze your assets, and only then if you're foolish enough to subject yourself to the due process, you might end up in jail. There's an handful of people from the west who went to Donbass to report the situation. They are (of course?) mostly supportive of Russia, so you shouldn't delude yourself in thinking that they are unbiased... but they have regularly…

> https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/german-journalist-... Do you have a source that doesn't just wholeheartedly parrot Russian and CCP talking points?.

We're talking about criminal proceedings here, it's not a "talking point" for which you can doubt its veracity. There's plenty of corroboration

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/11/alina-lipp...

Re: A novel the CIA spent a fortune to suppress

#89

Post by thiagoharry »

jasmer wrote: post #76
theFco wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this scenario, the CIA is not protecting against greater evil for the people of the country. They are just protecting the interests of the US. Now, the CIA's mission is to protect the US interests, there is nothing wrong. However, the means they use to do so may have something wrong with that. Installing and protecting dictators that are favorable to the US is unethical. Also the CIA does not furter "American valu…

[flagged]

Allende WON the election. Whatever percentage he had, surely it was more than what Pinochet had. And he always said that his government would be a socialist one (which is what in US people would call communist). There were no lies involved.

What right US have to support mass tortures, and genocide (Indonesia) to impose an economical system that people in other countries did not want to follow? And what right do you have to advocate this?

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