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Ableton Push 3

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Re: Ableton Push 3

#81

Post by basisword »

wodenokoto wrote: post #71
basisword wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> And I'm a programmer - don't want to imagine the pains that musicians have to go through. Anyone doing it professionally will check all of their plugins/hardware has support for the latest macOS version before updating.

I can promise you there are many, many professional musicians who will be first in line to upgrade their Mac. I’m a professional programmer it’s not like I test if my mouse or keyboard will work with a new windows update.

It's very well known plugins break with OS updates. The vendors usually send emails warning against updates. Someone making music at home for fun might update on day one, but no professional studio will.

Re: Ableton Push 3

#82

Post by tumult »

wodenokoto wrote: post #71
basisword wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> And I'm a programmer - don't want to imagine the pains that musicians have to go through. Anyone doing it professionally will check all of their plugins/hardware has support for the latest macOS version before updating.

I can promise you there are many, many professional musicians who will be first in line to upgrade their Mac. I’m a professional programmer it’s not like I test if my mouse or keyboard will work with a new windows update.

None of the pro musicians I know leap to update their OS like that. Some of them even keep their music machines perpetually offline. These computers are tools for music which just happen to run some OS.

Re: Ableton Push 3

#83

Post by chuchana »

Zobat wrote: post #63

So they built a Linnstrument? Honestly don't know who was first, but I know I looked at the Linnstrument a long time ago (when my daughter Linn was really young, she's 13 now). The Linnstrument looks better and has more buttons, and more is better, right? https://www.rogerlinndesign.com/linnstrument

Have you seen the Soundplane (https://madronalabs.com/soundplane)?

Re: Ableton Push 3

#84

Post by joshspankit »

jtode wrote: post #36
vemv wrote: post #21

I own a Push 1 and 2, although at hobbyist level. The standalone Push 3 seems a great step forward. macOS has increasingly become user-hostile when it comes to audio (and other pro) users. For instance I have an expensive sound card that became useless with after a minor OS upgrade. I never got to troubleshoot it or find an official solution. That was incredibly discouraging - enough to move on to other hobbies. And…

Musician here, most of us (the ones that aren't also programmers) just have to pay up the arse every time for every thing. I've been teaching myself keys the last few years and had been planning to one day get myself a big $6k stage keyboard, when I felt that I had sufficiently developed to warrant it. I have since tried out Zynthian, and my conclusion was that with a pianoteq license and a good controller, I can hav…

> domination of music is one of the pillars of Mac's success. If they're not just neglecting that, but actively screwing with people... They've lost the plot.

They’ve lost many plots.

Musicians, developers, and even photographers.

Apple’s playbook seems to have changed to:

- Hook a demographic with functionality that’s anywhere from just good enough to excellent

- Railroad them in to using as many first-part services as possible (especially if that means getting them to buy more Apple devices)

- Slowly lock them down so it’s harder and harder to move to competitors (aka boil the frog)

- Move staff from those first party products as the users are trapped and it’s no longer necessary for the quality to be excellent

Re: Ableton Push 3

#85

Post by joshspankit »

wodenokoto wrote: post #71
basisword wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> And I'm a programmer - don't want to imagine the pains that musicians have to go through. Anyone doing it professionally will check all of their plugins/hardware has support for the latest macOS version before updating.

I can promise you there are many, many professional musicians who will be first in line to upgrade their Mac. I’m a professional programmer it’s not like I test if my mouse or keyboard will work with a new windows update.

Logically yes, but anyone who’s been doing it for more than a couple years has been burned by an update at least once and won’t easily make that mistake again.

Re: Ableton Push 3

#87

Post by wheels »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #69
wheels wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bunch of stuff. - Standard libraries for audio software are less tested on Linux and tend to be buggier there, and we have to chase down those bugs. - There are a bajillion versions of Linux, and even if you say you only support some subset of those, Linux users will ignore that and still write to support when it doesn't work on their distro / version. Sometimes that even extends to writing bad reviews online.…

If it were me, I'd just focus on making sure it works well on Fedora. PipeWire is in the OOBE, and is where a good chunk of pro audio folks have settled due to top-notch PipeWire support.

This is exactly the sort of email we get. Except that this would literally be the first request for Fedora, exactly exemplifying our problem. (Most of our users request things with Ubuntu / Debian bases.)

Re: Ableton Push 3

#88

Post by wheels »

AndyPa32 wrote: post #55
wheels wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably a Linux stack. A lot of pro-audio companies have internal Linux versions, but don't ship them because of support / packaging reasons (which are miserable on Linux). That goes away for embedded usage.

I't think, it's not packaging. From RPM to DEB to Snap to flatpack there are lots of options. But support I get. KDE, Gnome or whatever choice of window manager, many different distributions etc., that sounds like support hell.

The problem isn't lack of options, it's too many. Also things like Snap and Flatpack don't work well if you're loading plugins in-process (e.g. VSTs).

Re: Ableton Push 3

#89

Post by hammyhavoc »

wheels wrote: post #87
hammyhavoc wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were me, I'd just focus on making sure it works well on Fedora. PipeWire is in the OOBE, and is where a good chunk of pro audio folks have settled due to top-notch PipeWire support.

This is exactly the sort of email we get. Except that this would literally be the first request for Fedora, exactly exemplifying our problem. (Most of our users request things with Ubuntu / Debian bases.)

I'm not requesting you do anything, I'm not even a customer (as far as I know), I'm saying what I would do in your position if I was aiming to support an audio product on Linux. I explained why I would choose Fedora. It's your business, you run it as you see fit.

I can't help but feel that maybe you read too much into what you get sent.

I would pick one "known good config" (your distro of choice), present it as what it gets tested on prior to release, and for anything else, you're on your own, that's part-and-parcel to being a Linux user. It assumes some kind of ability to troubleshoot and solve your own problems. It isn't for everybody, just like a Mac or Windows isn't for everybody.

Officially, DaVinci Resolve has CentOS as the only supported config, but it runs on other Linux distros just fine. Doesn't seem to hurt its popularity on Linux.

If you go back a couple decades, there was even developer-recommended hardware for specific DAWs. People will use whatever gets the job done, your product or not, Linux or not.

Re: Ableton Push 3

#90

Post by [deleted] »

sideshowb wrote: post #30

Very cool but surely it can't be long before AI can generate top quality music? Of course people will still keep creating, and I'm sure there will be an 'organic' no-AI movement, but the exciting music tech of the next 10 years is going to be in that space in between the two... (Ableton user since version 4)

[deleted]
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