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China is calling in loans to dozens of countries from Pakistan to Kenya

fortune.com

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Re: China is calling in loans to dozens of countries from Pakistan to Kenya

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s a simple question. If the IMF loans are so terrible, why do countries apply for them? And if giving out loans to countries is such an awesome tool for the IMF, why is it refusing to allow Pakistan to draw down already approved loans?

The comment you're responding to is typical cope from corrupt, inept, and poorly-run countries looking for excuses on why they remain poor. I see this in my country (Nigeria) too...that somehow it's the IMF keeping us poor, not our stupid leaders and an equally stupid populace voting them in.

I have no knowledge about Nigeria, so I'll defer to your superior knowledge of their corruption.

I suggest you look up the IMF's track record. India had to use the IMF in the early 90s due to decades of "socialism."

We are long past that point, forex reserves were close to USD 600 billion last time I checked.

So there's no question of "cope."

Re: China is calling in loans to dozens of countries from Pakistan to Kenya

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but wouldn’t China be relying on those countries willingly giving those things (ports, resources, etc) to them? Why would any country do that?

If the debtor country doesn't cooperate the lender has all manner of soft and hard power to fall back on. They can fund political opponents or instigate coups to install a puppet government. Organize sanctions, train guerilla fighters, or even overtly start a war. Needless to say, China is not exactly a pioneer in this space...

But doesn’t this make a huge opening for someone like the US to step in and say: “hey, we will bail you out and stop China from interfering. Just sign this treaty and let us occupy with some troops”?

Re: China is calling in loans to dozens of countries from Pakistan to Kenya

#83
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regular banks or not, the Congo's Sicomines agreement (linked above) and Sri Lankan port seizure make it pretty clear - China stands to achieve strategic goals when countries default on loans.

So yes, but, it's not very clear at all, and this idea that 'China is making the loans so they default and then get access to ports' is 'rationally cynical' but not quite right. Also, everyone is aware that this could be the reality and of the outcomes. In reality - China's loans were regular commercial loans made by regular commercial banks (don't get me wrong, at the behest of the CCP). The amount of $ lent out is…

China provides the funding, the materials and the workers to build the infrastructure. That's the bigger issue.

Re: China is calling in loans to dozens of countries from Pakistan to Kenya

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but wouldn’t China be relying on those countries willingly giving those things (ports, resources, etc) to them? Why would any country do that?

On one hand I don’t think China is doing that much wrong here, at least nothing worse than other countries. But basically because it’s not “those countries” giving those things away, it’s the corrupt kleptocrats who represent those countries which are giving them away in exchange for some personal gain. They don’t care about what it does the country because they can take their personal wealth and family to London or…

So it's like pick-pocketing a frail person.

Re: China is calling in loans to dozens of countries from Pakistan to Kenya

#85
I'll repost the top voted comment from r/anime_titties for this article, since apparently most users here were fooled by the reporting:

" This is just a rehash of the awful AP article from yesterday: https://apnews.com/article/china-debt-banking-loans-financia...

It amounts to what is essentially misinformation.

> Countries in AP’s analysis had as much as 50% of their foreign loans from China and most were devoting more than a third of government revenue to paying off foreign debt. Two of them, Zambia and Sri Lanka, have already gone into default, unable to make even interest payments on loans financing the construction of ports, mines and power plants.

Yes. BILATERAL LOANS. i.e. a fraction of a country's total debt. China amounts to 65% of Nigeria's bilateral loans, but The VAST majority of debt in these countries is owed to private creditors (in London and New York) via eurobond loans. Those loans have far higher interest rates, often require massive principle repayments and are generally impossible to renegotiate or suspend in times of debt distress. Eurobonds are what caused Sri lanka to default, what caused Zambia to default and what are causing everyone else to default.

During covid China suspended more debt repayments than the rest of the intl community combined, despite having only 30% of the total lending. Doesn't sound very evil to me.

There are plenty of real problems with China's historic lending, but jesus the lies need to stop. "

To add to that, only ~10% of Sri Lanka's outstanding loans are owed to Beijing, in any form, and even if you add up every company with any PRC ties whatsoever and the AIIB, it's only ~20% of outstanding loans. Considering how close Sri Lanka ties are, probably every other debtor country would have a lower ratio.

It's unfortunate that the Associated Press and Fortune have reduced their credibility to the level of Hollywood accountants, but I guess that's how the cookie crumbled when there's so much geopolitical pressure to fudge reporting.

Re: China is calling in loans to dozens of countries from Pakistan to Kenya

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a completely false narrative. The IMF is a lender of last resort. Countries only go to it to borrow when they absolutely need money and have nowhere else to go. And for obvious reasons, when countries are in such desperate straits that literally no private or public entity will lend money to them, the IMF requires fairly stringent rules so their leaders don’t just pocket the money and run away, or don’t spend…

> The IMF is a lender of last resort. Countries only go to it to borrow when they absolutely need money and have nowhere else to go. This is irrelevant. > And as a bonus, unlike the World Bank funds (which is the correct equivalent to the BRI loans), the Chinese didn’t require you to prove the economic viability of the projects, they didn’t require you to raise additional private capital for the project, and most imp…

> IMF doesn't really invest in specific projects

Neither does the parent poster claim they do. If I read the quoted part correctly, it only talks about the World Bank funds.

Re: China is calling in loans to dozens of countries from Pakistan to Kenya

#87
post #5

> Behind the scenes is China’s reluctance to forgive debt and its extreme secrecy about how much money it has loaned and on what terms, which has kept other major lenders from stepping in to help. On top of that is the recent discovery that borrowers have been required to put cash in hidden escrow accounts that push China to the front of the line of creditors to be paid. This is the part of “belt and road” where they…

People talk about "belt and road" being soft power, but that sounds ineffective soft power.

The problem for China is that countries won't be cooperating willingly. The moment shooting war starts between China and US, the countries will nationalize anything sold to China, default on the loans, and call the US asking them to take over the bases.

One problem China has is that they think the US is forcing other countries to be allies and enforce their hegemony. This leads them to think that they need to act same way and coerce other countries into their sphere. US is more subtle, using "soft power", mutual interest, and limited coercion. The US also doesn't care about most of the world beyond companies having access.

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