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Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

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Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#81

Post by SpaghettiCthulu »

brudgers wrote: post #77
SpaghettiCthulu wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that asking someone how they are feeling is an "emotional deep dive" is a portion of the problem. I would argue that the "emotional deep dive" example is not merely asking how someone is feeling. > it sounds like you’re processing some big feelings right now, let’s talk about what’s going on for you Speaking from experience when I was a kid, being spoken to in this manner always felt belittling.

In some families, conversations are weaponized. The question might feel belittling because it is used used to belittle. Questions often reflect status relationships where some people have the privilege to expect answers and thus carry a demeanor of expecting answers to their questions. Questions are used as a reminder that the other person is obligated to answer.

Well, you might be somewhat right, but that sort of talk never came from my parents. It always came from authority figures at school or summer camps.

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#82

Post by thanatropism »

FrankyHollywood wrote: post #64
mikepurvis wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At risk of attacking a straw man, do you believe it's ever possible to have a "bad" behaviour? When an adult throws a temper tantrum to an airplane stewardess, is that also something we should look on with "comprehension of another being's emotional state", or is it in fact entitlement, selfishness, poor regulation, and unrealistic expectations? Is that behaviour something we can agree on as being "bad"? I think that…

> But I don't see a lot of that nuance from many gentle parenting advocates I see friends taking parenting courses, and raising their kids 'by the rules'. It seems so mechanical, and, from the behavior I see it isn't working very well either, just and endless battle against 'the rules'. My kids are a bit older now, and looking back I see intuition is important in raising kids. You know your own boundaries, and can be…

> I found raising your voice in many cases just means you don't trust yourself and you don't trust that your kids respect you.

My current working theory is that toddler temper tantrums are this. I mean from the opposite direction; the kid is not on solid footing yet and doesn't think the grownups take them seriously enough.

For the longest while we were making the utmost effort to do the respectful parenting thing, but as he's growing to have very strong opinions that are not always reasonable, this is... harder.

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#83

Post by Tronno »

throwaway646465 wrote: post #78
SpaghettiCthulu wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that asking someone how they are feeling is an "emotional deep dive" is a portion of the problem. I would argue that the "emotional deep dive" example is not merely asking how someone is feeling. > it sounds like you’re processing some big feelings right now, let’s talk about what’s going on for you Speaking from experience when I was a kid, being spoken to in this manner always felt belittling.

> Speaking from experience when I was a kid, being spoken to in this manner always felt belittling. I think a lot of it comes down to how people usually communicate with the kid. Like I can’t possibly imagine my Dad saying “Looks like we got some big feelings here, want to talk about it?” It sounds so silly and patronizing. But a “Boona, I can’t help unless you tell me what’s wrong” is completely normal to my ears. F…

Nothing about either phrasing sounds condescending to me. However, communication is more than words.

You can ask about feelings with a gentle tone, a supportive gaze at eye level, and a hand on the shoulder. Or you can do it from above with an eye roll and a sarcastic bite.

I can easily see a frustrated parent giving in to their own emotions and using the latter approach.

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#84

Post by buster3000 »

f6v wrote: post #9
goda90 wrote: post #3

My older dog was a stray as a puppy and we give her fluoxetine(commonly called Prozac) to help with anxiety. Even after years of training we have issues with trying to walk her during daylight because she crumbles in fear. Our other dog being present gives her some confidence but they both also react more to other dogs when they think they have to protect the other, so it's a daily struggle.

Vets give Prozac to dogs?

yep. My rescue was on fluoxetine + occasionally xanax until it complicated with her epilepsy medication

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#85

Post by subjectsigma »

osobo wrote: post #7
BigCryo wrote: post #2

With dogs approaching the quasi religious status, quasi sacred status of sacred cow here in America, how long before laws are passed mandating annual checkups for dogs?

Some manner of obligation to care for your pet (any pet) should exist. This has nothing to do with religion and is all about honoring the commitment you entered when you decided to take care of an animal.

I have no idea how laws got brought into this conversation but some people absolutely do worship their dogs, as someone who doesn’t really like animals and is highly allergic to pet dander, it’s frankly quite annoying and insane.

I was bitten by a dog once and the owners immediately started trying to explain to me why it was actually my fault that I, standing there minding my own business, made the dog bite me! They eventually remembered that I got bit and asked if I was hurt.

I lived in an apartment building next to some people with a new puppy who barked at night - when I complained to them about it I got an earful about how its ok for them to violate noise ordinances and disturb my sleep, it’s a puppy, it can’t control itself, how could I possibly be so mean!?

I refused an invitation to a party once because they had a lot of dogs and I’m very allergic - I was told I was being super rude and that I should just pop some meds and get over it. I asked them why they expected me to make myself miserable for the dogs sake when they could just kennel it for the weekend?

I own fish - the amount of times someone has told me that my pet is “lame” or “silly” or “boring” and that I should have gotten a dog is ridiculous. Like fuck off.

TL;DR Dog owners can be really obnoxious and self-righteous. There’s a mutual understanding that if people can’t control their children, they are bad parents. But not being able to control your dog is for some reason much more accepted.

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#86

Post by Ensorceled »

rcme wrote: post #75
Tade0 wrote: post #5

> If evidence suggests that many dogs, like many humans, misbehave because they are struggling with emotions and anxiety, why do so many pet owners and trainers look to punishment as the solution, rather than addressing the emotions directly? Same reason why so many people do the same to children - they're set in their views and are unwilling accept that they might be wrong. Also, it's less work (at lesst in the shor…

Punishment, aka negative reinforcement, can be required in some cases. For instance, if your dog learns they can jump on the counter to steal food, then there isn't really a way to train that out of them with positive reinforcement. That doesn't mean yelling at a dog per se, but using a loud sound or might mousetrap on the counter can help discourage the behavior. "Timeout" is also a very common dog training strategy…

Punishment and negative reinforcement are different things, but it can be a lot of work to structure positive or negative reinforcement for situations like jumping up on the counter to steal food.

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#87

Post by Ensorceled »

logifail wrote: post #76
iepathos wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it's the definition of punishment: inflicting or imposing penalties as retribution for an offense. Withdrawing privileges is an imposed penalty. idk if it's appropriate or not, but it's objectively punishment not just an opinion children have.

> Actually, it's the definition of punishment: inflicting or imposing penalties as retribution for an offense. Children are not small adults, but they are surprisingly capable of understanding incentives. "If you behave well you can have ice cream. If you behave badly, you don't get ice cream. It's your choice." It's awful to teach children that behaviour doesn't matter. Actions do have consequences.

This is still punishment, even if you believe it's for their own good that "actions do have consequences".

You can't just redefine it as "not punishment" because you want to use that method in child rearing.

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#88

Post by Ensorceled »

afterburner wrote: post #70
logifail wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same reason why so many people do the same to children - they're set in their views and are unwilling accept that they might be wrong There are plenty who believe that withdrawing privileges is an entirely normal and appropriate response when children misbehave. This isn't punishment, although some children consider it to be.

Telling a child they're not being punished as you punish them is gaslighting.

"It's for your own good so it's not punishment."

It is amazing the mental hoops people can jump through.

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#89

Post by r2_pilot »

XCSme wrote: post #55
screye wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know why you're downvoted. Most Americans seems to put in more effort into their dogs, than people used to with their children 100 years ago. Take care of your kid like you'd a long-lived dog, and that's enough attention for long enough. By the end of it, the kid has grown into an adult. The problem is that parents are expected to parent too much. American car centric infrastructure affects this a lot. But, lat…

Haven't pets, especially dogs, been treated as part of the family for a really long time (thousands of years)? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_depictions_of_dogs

I can't remember where I read this now, but I seem to recall that dogs were primarily outside companions until recently; the invention of flea/tick controls helped ease their transition inside. I had an inside dog growing up that got fleas one time. It was definitely a lesson in making sure that sort of thing never happened again.

Re: Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

#90

Post by throwaway646465 »

rcme wrote: post #75
Tade0 wrote: post #5

> If evidence suggests that many dogs, like many humans, misbehave because they are struggling with emotions and anxiety, why do so many pet owners and trainers look to punishment as the solution, rather than addressing the emotions directly? Same reason why so many people do the same to children - they're set in their views and are unwilling accept that they might be wrong. Also, it's less work (at lesst in the shor…

Punishment, aka negative reinforcement, can be required in some cases. For instance, if your dog learns they can jump on the counter to steal food, then there isn't really a way to train that out of them with positive reinforcement. That doesn't mean yelling at a dog per se, but using a loud sound or might mousetrap on the counter can help discourage the behavior. "Timeout" is also a very common dog training strategy…

Ehhhh, much like children it really depends on the dog.

I have a counter surfer at home, and we tried the negative reinforcement, time-outs, loud noises ect, and all it did was give her food aggression where she never had any before.

Training leave it and removing opportunities for her to steal worked out way better long term. Now if she finds a chicken bone or something on a walk I can just take it from her when before when she’d do her damndest to hide it.

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