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New cars are just for rich people now

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Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#81
post #42
post #30

EVs are the way to go right now. Between the "fleet" loophole for federal credits, state credits, free charging for 2-3 years in some cases, discounted charging at night, manufacturers trying to get rid of the EVs that didn't succeed, no sales tax in some states. It's probably 50% cheaper than an ICE car

can you please link an ev that's cheaper than a 26k total cost of ownership over a 10y period(excluding registration) I bought a midsized sedan in 2019, 10y warranty, 17k out the door. I tried to justify the cost of an ev, the cheapest I could find was 32k after credits.

This tool lets you explore the space:

https://www.carboncounter.com/#!/explore

Note you can tweak specific rebates and/or gas prices, mileage per year, length of ownership etc. in the advanced options and they have presets for each state.

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ford saw the automobile as being revolutionary only if the person who makes the automobile is able to make the automobile What is this supposed to mean? I'm not sure if I'm being obtuse or its too profound for me to understand.

You can find a better retelling of this elsewhere, but Ford wanted his employees to be able to purchase Ford cars. The story is often used when discussing the fairness of employees wages, or the cost of goods. Auto employees have long been considered part of the middle class. I think the OP was referring to the fact that probably many of the people making these cars can't even afford them nowadays. Given that cars ar…

I dunno, auto workers are better paid than many other workers.

My son is still living at our farm but he is starting his first real job. We’ve looked at options for his first car, he is interested in getting an early 1990s Buick or something like that (which can be had under $4000), the kind of used car that I find attractive (a 2010-2020 Honda) is pretty expensive ($13-$18k). We’re leaning towards taking our chances with the bucket.

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense. This sounds like a play for a more loyal labor force, a larger labor force, or to head off unionization. Ford was an incredible asshole that supported Nazi beliefs. He's wasn't going to just give people money.

Quoting Ford “I will build a motor car for the great multitude. It will be so low in price that no man will be unable to own one.”. You are looking at it from a take of more people fighting over how big their slice of the pie will be. Instead of splitting up one pie, Ford wanted to make more pies and drive down the price from the efficiencies/economy of scale of making so many pies that everyone got their own. And it…

Being “revolutionary” in my use is that “cars change the world”, which they did. If it was all about F1 racing and Bentleys that 1% of people could afford, cars wouldn’t be the force that they are.

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#85
I feel this a bit. I had a Jeep Grand Cherokee which I loved but decided to have engine problems which apparently is not uncommon. After months of attempted repairs the only option left was a replacement engine that cost more than the value of the car. I considered it but decided against on the advice of a trusted mechanic who says the Jeep replacement engines are problematic and I'd just be inviting more repair cost. Based on how things had gone, I imagined this is correct.

I wanted to cheap, small, 2wd pickup to toss rocks and woodchips and the like into for around the town chores which I seem to do a lot of. Does not exist, somewhere along the line everyone decided a pickup truck is some sort of luxury vehicle with all kinds of bells and whistles. While base model trucks are affordable, I cannot find one anywhere, only high-level trims are available. And a used truck with 100k miles is still outrageously expensive and I have shell shock from the Jeep engine blowing up at that milage.

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#86
Has anyone looked into knock on effects from the Obama era cash for clunkers that reduced the used car supply by 677,081 cars? I always thought that was going to impact affordability. It removed lower cost vehicles AND their future cannibalization for parts to keep other low cost vehicles on the road.

The other change I wonder is just the longevity of cars (which could counteract impact from cash for clunkers). My father used to buy a new car every 3-4 years in the 90s because cars sucked. Cars are more expensive now, but last much longer. My 7 year old car is as good as new still, my dad kept his last car 10 years.

Is a product that lasts triple the amount of time for less than triple the old price actually more expensive? No, but it IS now contradictingly unaffordable. It becomes the rich people and shoes trope. Poor people can only afford cheap shoes that wear out more often. When I could afford nice italian boots that lasted longer and were amazingly more comfortable I actually spent less on shoes, but I had to be able to shell out $500 for boots. Now I can only afford $40 for junk. Heck I have shirts from Nordstroms from 10 years ago that I still get complimented on but can't replace and am forced to slowly replace with cheap garbage shirts than wear out in a year because I'm broke and am sad to see myself fall into that trap knowing I am throwing away money to the benefit of looking worse for more $$$ spent over time.

All that said having moved down about 10 social economic groups the people I know have 2 daily struggles that keep them in constant anxiety. Housing and keeping their cars running. The system is not going to hold if this keeps up. People can't live in this constant stress and anxiety with no hope and are going to look to some way out. In the past in other countries that's been far left or far right political charlatans. Yet the people up high still expect the status quo to hold and are doing nothing to make things better.

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s definitely a big part, but the other major reasons are: 1. Companies are focusing on selling higher profit margin vehicles (more expensive models vs high volume budget models) 2. Companies are focusing on SUVs and trucks since bigger cars are in demand. 3. To a small extent, the focus on inherently more expensive EV models

And even in a subgroup like trucks, try buying a basic stripped down pickup like you could 15-20 years ago. Just two doors and an 8 foot bed, a truck... they don't make them anymore. Instead you get one of these giant penis extensions they sell now and call trucks. I don't want 4 doors and leather, it doesn't need to be 8 feet off the ground, it doesn't need to the the size and weight of a semi... I just want a utili…

True. I recently inherited a small 2016 truck. It's so stripped down my nephew didn't know what the crank was on the door. He had never seen a manual window crank ha! It does however have one nice feature; bluetooth. I could easily afford a nice car but this little truck is perfect. I don't drive that much so I could see having it the rest of my days barring gasoline is still made. I have no desire for a new car.

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#88
post #72
post #35

Safety is a big factor here. The basic trim for all entry level models includes driving aids such as proximity sensors, blind spot warning, backup camera, pre-collision warning. The changes required to integrate those features into the car are diverse and influence design. The net result is that it's not economically feasible to offer them as optional components on higher trims and the base price of all models goes u…

Meh. I feel like that's a scapegoat that they like to use. Honda packed all that into the Fit (Honda Sensing), and it wasn't a $50,000 car. It was reasonably priced, and an excellent, economical car, with a top safety rating. It's literally the exact same tech used in their top end cars. But what they did was, they killed the Fit in the US. So now the cheapest Honda car you can get is the Civic. Which isn't the small…

So your argument on a software development site is that feature creep isn't a thing?

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#89
post #72
post #35

Safety is a big factor here. The basic trim for all entry level models includes driving aids such as proximity sensors, blind spot warning, backup camera, pre-collision warning. The changes required to integrate those features into the car are diverse and influence design. The net result is that it's not economically feasible to offer them as optional components on higher trims and the base price of all models goes u…

Meh. I feel like that's a scapegoat that they like to use. Honda packed all that into the Fit (Honda Sensing), and it wasn't a $50,000 car. It was reasonably priced, and an excellent, economical car, with a top safety rating. It's literally the exact same tech used in their top end cars. But what they did was, they killed the Fit in the US. So now the cheapest Honda car you can get is the Civic. Which isn't the small…

>> unaffordable because of a $20 LCD and $10 camera installed into the bumper?

Yes. An automotive-grade LCD that will last years, plus a camera that will survive the elements, not mention the unreliable power supplies on which these must operate. Then 10+ feet of cable. Then the dozen little plastic clips to keep that cable secure. Then the manpower to install all of this. Yes. That camera system is more expensive than an injection-molded mirror bolted to the exterior of a car or glued to a windscreen. Multiply that by dozens of similar little things and it does result in more expensive vehicles.

Re: New cars are just for rich people now

#90

A quick trip on the Googles: 2023 Nissan Versa - $17,366 2023 Kia Rio - $18,371 2023 Mitsubishi Mirage - $17,140 Just sayin....

Yeah, Kia Forte is still sub $20k. That’s a perfectly good car that seats four adults and does 40 MPG (kinda meh in Europe but okay). If you need more car than that for driving to work and buying groceries on the way home, that’s your problem, and I have zero sympathy for you.
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