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Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

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Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#81
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be better if you didn't over hire. I can't speak for MSFT. But a lot of tech companies definitely hired to banana town. Cutting would be better than freezing salaries.

Hiring gives someone experience they sought and presumably would not have had (else they might have kept put). So overhiring in some light does look bad, on the other hand it gives some people the necessary experience for their next step in their carrers.

> So overhiring in some light does look bad, on the other hand it gives some people the necessary experience for their next step in their carrers.

Not if they were let go before their first year, which has been the case at a lot of tech companies recently.

New hires, juniors especially, need a lot of time to onboard. Lessons in the first weeks and months of a new job will be more about company-specific tooling and minutiae, not engineering in the broader scope. Portable lessons come later, usually after you've found your legs.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#82
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood the idea that salaries should be expected to always be corrected for inflation, and that not doing so is somehow secretly a "salary cut". Salaries are driven by supply and demand, and individual companies (maybe not Microsoft though) can generally only afford to raise them by a given amount. If that amount is less than inflation then that's that, right? Most companies (again, maybe not Microsoft th…

Because it is a cut. Your spending power is less. It's a real terms cut. There's a good chance they've increased their product prices by inflation as well. I mean they don't have to raise salaries, but if someone is offering me a higher rate I'm going to go. You have no responsibility to your company. Now if the entire market is telling me to take a cut, either it's collusion or software developers are simply worth l…

Everyone is worth less when the pandemic and war disrupted so many things.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#84
post #40

Wondering how long it’ll take for other tech companies to copy this move and pretend that they independently arrived at these conclusions after their meticulous macroeconomic analysis.

Is it not better/preferable to freeze salaries than to cut more staff? From a morale PoV, from a human PoV, except maybe not from an individual PoV, overall.

Do not have mercy for a faceless corporation continually posting profits that grow quarter over quarter. They are rolling in money and could cut executive comp or something else, but choose not to.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#85
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it not better/preferable to freeze salaries than to cut more staff? From a morale PoV, from a human PoV, except maybe not from an individual PoV, overall.

It might be better if you didn't over hire. I can't speak for MSFT. But a lot of tech companies definitely hired to banana town. Cutting would be better than freezing salaries.

Yes a lot of companies hired a lot more. A lot of money also got distributed in this process which otherwise wouldn't have. Laid off employees got some work experience out of it. Better than nothing.

I don't get this stuck up argument again and again Why did they hire before? As if there is some really great answer that can reveal itself by repeatedly asking this question.

> Cutting would be better than freezing salaries.

Many would like same or lower salary than being laid off. Those who looking for higher salaries can move on just like they always have.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#86
post #42
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much illegal back channel coordination there is going on between the big tech companies on this.

It doesn’t take illegal back channel coordination to play follow the leader. All it takes is one major company to pull the trigger, then the rest will follow. The hiring market during covid was wonky in a way that favored applicants, and a lot of folks who got hired were under-qualified, overpaid, or both. This is just a natural reversion to a more balanced state across the industry.

If all large tech employers play follow the leader then it's not natural reversion, it's a textbook example of tacit oligopoly coordination.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of comment woups not have been here like 3 years ago. It was an amazing journey to watch HN denisens adjust their opinions as they went from creme de la creme and 'anyone can create a unicorn tonorrow' to, you know, being basically like a plumber but for JSON.

The secret is, we've always been plumbers . It's not a terrible comparison in some ways - plumbers are highly-skilled, scarce, and command high prices for their services. Nobody mistakes them for Capital, especially not plumbers themselves. Engineers seem to have gotten the wrong idea about themselves lately.

I don't think Joe The Plumber got that memo.

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#88
post #26

Wondering how long it’ll take for other tech companies to copy this move and pretend that they independently arrived at these conclusions after their meticulous macroeconomic analysis.

I wonder how much illegal back channel coordination there is going on between the big tech companies on this.

Apple and Google settled an antitrust lawsuit a few years ago for colluding to suppress wages (by agreeing not to recruit employees from each other)[0].

The settlement was a tiny fraction of the amount of money they saved by entering the illegal agreement in the first place.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/apr/24/apple-goo...

Re: Microsoft Freezes Salaries for 2023

#89
post #10

Yet CEO's bonus in 2022 was 20x bigger than his salary. I don't think it will be less this year either; with all-time high stock price and these "cost cuts", he will be wholesomely rewarded.

This kind of comment woups not have been here like 3 years ago. It was an amazing journey to watch HN denisens adjust their opinions as they went from creme de la creme and 'anyone can create a unicorn tonorrow' to, you know, being basically like a plumber but for JSON.

Creme de la creme? ROFL, that's so funny I have to upvote you.
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