I was laid off in retaliation for anti-discrimination whistleblowing • Hacker News Board

Re: I was laid off in retaliation for anti-discrimination whistleblowing

#81

Post by cogman10 » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:05 AM UTC

ajross wrote: post #61

begno wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've met more than one hiring manager who tacitly refuses to hire anyone who is transgendered. Of course this is only revealed in confidence, and they'll deny it if asked. The reason is typically one or more of: - they don't want the rest of the team to have to walk on eggshells regarding pronouns and so on, or - they don't want to have to deal with any fallout from female employees getting pissed about males using t…

> Kind of sucks for the transgendered applicants, but understandable I suppose, given the circumstances these days. Yikes. That's true in exactly the same way that segregation kinda sucked for the black kids, but was understandable given the circumstances of the postbellum south. Discrimination against a minority solely for the social conveniences of the majority is a terrible sin. Haven't we had this fight a thousan…

Yup. Catering to bigots makes you a bigot. The fact that "they won't ever admit to it" is the problem with bigotry.

Re: I was laid off in retaliation for anti-discrimination whistleblowing

#82

Post by nostromo » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:07 AM UTC

I think Washington’s banning of nondisclosure and nondisparagement agreements is going to hurt victims more than anyone.

It’s one’s primary bargaining chip when suing a former employer that has wronged an employee. Taking that away means more people will not get compensation when they should.

Re: I was laid off in retaliation for anti-discrimination whistleblowing

#83

Post by fishnchips » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:11 AM UTC

wombatpm wrote: post #56

wiredone wrote: post #6

Honestly, while I believe a lot of the perspective shared, there always seems to be a huge lack of objective assessment of options for these folks. In tech there are many incredibly high paying jobs - taking control over your situation has a low bar. if you don’t like your manager, taking the view that if you escalate a formal complaint to HR (in doing so lose all trust you manager and HR may have in you), you’ll be…

You have a problem with work. I know I'll get HR involved, they will help me. You now have two problems with work. Unless your goal is to get someone fired, I've never seen HR getting involved to be a positive action.

If you have a good relationship with an HR person, and trust them enough to ask for informal advice, some positive action can follow. If you want to go the formal route, if you use words and phrases that sound like a lawsuit in the making, expect an action to your disadvantage. HR is there to protect the company, not you. An obviously disgruntled employee crying foul is immediately perceived as a threat to the company, regardless of whether they're objectively right or not.

Re: I was laid off in retaliation for anti-discrimination whistleblowing

#84

Post by throw491 » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:14 AM UTC

tonymillion wrote: post #79

ajross wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kind of sucks for the transgendered applicants, but understandable I suppose, given the circumstances these days. Yikes. That's true in exactly the same way that segregation kinda sucked for the black kids, but was understandable given the circumstances of the postbellum south. Discrimination against a minority solely for the social conveniences of the majority is a terrible sin. Haven't we had this fight a thousan…

Thank you for this comment, I was just about to rage and you eloquently expressed a great reply! In addition I was about to add: How about the manager not use their internal prejudices to influence their decision and hide behind a thin veil of “what about my employees” and actually let their employees LEARN how to correctly interact with transgendered, queer, ethnically diverse co-workers and possibly come out of the…

[flagged]

Re: I was laid off in retaliation for anti-discrimination whistleblowing

#85

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:16 AM UTC

no_wizard wrote: post #70

wiredone wrote: post #6

Honestly, while I believe a lot of the perspective shared, there always seems to be a huge lack of objective assessment of options for these folks. In tech there are many incredibly high paying jobs - taking control over your situation has a low bar. if you don’t like your manager, taking the view that if you escalate a formal complaint to HR (in doing so lose all trust you manager and HR may have in you), you’ll be…

I have a different take: Be the change you want to be. Everyone just says "leave" but what if you have no where to go, and inversely, if everyone is just leaving, then there is no incentive for organizations to change. You can argue its "futile" but the truth is, its not, these things compound, the more people do it, the less it can be swept up and hidden away. Real change is thousands and thousands of people doing s…

[deleted]

Re: I was laid off in retaliation for anti-discrimination whistleblowing

#86

Post by lliamander » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:20 AM UTC

throwawaylinux wrote: post #65

I've worked with a couple of people in tech who were very worker solidarity, unionize, labor movement, discrimination everywhere, etc. They must have been tiring for management to work with. And I go in to bat for my colleagues, and it has not always made me popular with management and executives, but there are better and worse ways of approaching things. If you are unwilling to accept that a decision has been made f…

> I'm not saying this person is wrong or did the wrong thing. I really don't have enough information.

Despite what other people may claim about why this story was previously flagged, this is probably why: we don't have enough information to know for sure this story is the truth, but people are going to come armed with their own presuppositions and argue about it anyway.

> On its face I would have to entertain the idea that they are not engaged in wide scale discrimination of anybody who is not a straight white male.

Not to mention that, as per the blog post, other employees close to the matter disagreed with OP's interpretation. Still doesn't mean the OP is wrong, but hopefully at least some of the people who responded to the article favorably will reserve some doubts.

Re: I was laid off in retaliation for anti-discrimination whistleblowing

#87

Post by pcthrowaway » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:20 AM UTC

ikiris wrote: post #74

begno wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've met more than one hiring manager who tacitly refuses to hire anyone who is transgendered. Of course this is only revealed in confidence, and they'll deny it if asked. The reason is typically one or more of: - they don't want the rest of the team to have to walk on eggshells regarding pronouns and so on, or - they don't want to have to deal with any fallout from female employees getting pissed about males using t…

I've literally met people who brag about trashing resumes with pronouns, openly because they think they're immune to consequences.

It's a common enough sentiment here and on reddit when the topic comes up. But if Blind is any indication, it's possible more people would trash a resume that lists pronouns before just... using it to inform how they address the candidate

Re: I was laid off in retaliation for anti-discrimination whistleblowing

#88

Post by ajross » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:23 AM UTC

throw491 wrote: post #84

tonymillion wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this comment, I was just about to rage and you eloquently expressed a great reply! In addition I was about to add: How about the manager not use their internal prejudices to influence their decision and hide behind a thin veil of “what about my employees” and actually let their employees LEARN how to correctly interact with transgendered, queer, ethnically diverse co-workers and possibly come out of the…

[flagged]

What if you had an employee who was horrified at their coworkers' eternal damnation and worked tirelessly to save their souls? Seems like that might cause friction as well. Seems like we might have a standard answer for that sort of friction that works for most environments.

The bulk of which, frankly, is just "don't be an asshole". But at the margins, we back that up with "at the very least, don't discriminate and refuse to hire the trans/christians/muslims/whatever, that's just awful".

Re: I was laid off in retaliation for anti-discrimination whistleblowing

#89

Post by nicolas_t » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:27 AM UTC

wombatpm wrote: post #56

wiredone wrote: post #6

Honestly, while I believe a lot of the perspective shared, there always seems to be a huge lack of objective assessment of options for these folks. In tech there are many incredibly high paying jobs - taking control over your situation has a low bar. if you don’t like your manager, taking the view that if you escalate a formal complaint to HR (in doing so lose all trust you manager and HR may have in you), you’ll be…

You have a problem with work. I know I'll get HR involved, they will help me. You now have two problems with work. Unless your goal is to get someone fired, I've never seen HR getting involved to be a positive action.

In this case, HR wasn't the problem. They were helping and tried to improve the situation. The problem is that there's only so much HR can do when the top executive chose to completely disregard them.

I'm biased, my wife works in HR but I've heard multiple stories from her where she helped solve problems by acting as an intermediate and deescalating the situation.

One of the major impetus of HR is to comply with laws regarding discrimination and ensure that the company doesn't engage in behaviours that would result in them being either liable or having a PR problem. This means solving those kind of issues and that sometimes involve batting for the employee with the executive team because they know that it's in the best interest of the company.

In this specific case, OP is a manager and passing up the chains issues that have been signaled to her. In a well functioning organization, this is absolutely the correct response and it's part and parcel of a manager's job. Involving HR early with a clear solution to deescalate and improve the situation (as described by the first case from OP) is great because this is what's best for the company. If the employee had transferred to the new team there would have been no basis for a lawsuit.

Re: I was laid off in retaliation for anti-discrimination whistleblowing

#90

Post by theteapot » Tue, May 02, 2023, 12:31 AM UTC

biomcgary wrote: post #67

yamtaddle wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you don’t like your manager, taking the view that if you escalate a formal complaint to HR (in doing so lose all trust you manager and HR may have in you), you’ll be vindicated and live on happily ever after… it’s a fairytale. Go work somewhere that makes you happy. Leave toxic environments - it’s not your job to fix them/right wrongs. Know where it's not a fairytale? Unionized workplaces. Source: I know several…

My first job was at a unionized workplace. I ended up doing more work to cover the guy that was loafing around under the protection of the union. Who protects you from the protectors? Rational or not, since that time, I am suspicious of the personal work ethic of those arguing for unions.

It's true, you never have to wonder about the work ethic of the unskilled and de-unionized worker. They have so little job security these days you can practically get the whip out on the poor, desperate little plebs.