Mercedes EVs can go faster for $60 a month • Hacker News Board

Re: Mercedes EVs can go faster for $60 a month

#81

Post by rootusrootus » Thu, May 04, 2023, 5:21 PM UTC

vannevar wrote: post #64

The first EV startup that emerges with a dumb EV (minimal software to actually operate) for around $30K will have a best-seller. Nobody actually wants the subscription-based car, it's gradually being forced on consumers via industry collusion.

Why does it have to be a startup? You can buy a dumb EV for under $30K today from GM. And yeah, it does sell pretty well.

The vast, vast majority of EVs sold today are not forcing subscriptions of any kind on their customers. A couple minor carmakers are trying a new business model.

Re: Mercedes EVs can go faster for $60 a month

#82

Post by rootusrootus » Thu, May 04, 2023, 5:22 PM UTC

worldmerge wrote: post #34

There already is a Tesla jailbreak scene. Guess more cars will start having jailbreaks.

We've been "jailbreaking" cars for decades.

Re: Mercedes EVs can go faster for $60 a month

#83

Post by rootusrootus » Thu, May 04, 2023, 5:25 PM UTC

alpos wrote: post #14

foobarbecue wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The communist / capitalist symmetry is quite something. In communism, the individual doesn't really own anything; the state just lets the individual use things as they see fit. In our late-stage capitalism, the individual doesn't really own anything; the corporation just lets the individual use things as they see fit.

I keep trying to tell the socialists and communists out there that they can totally implement the way they want to live within any democratic capitalist system. Just make a corporation which all of your people are members of, give voting powers to all members to decide what stuff the corporation buys as well as how members get to use the things. Can even go as far as setting up an HOA or a town where the company is t…

> the socialists and communists out there

How many do you know? As far as I can tell, in the US you could fit all of these folks in a single medium size stadium. And it probably wouldn't be full.

Re: Mercedes EVs can go faster for $60 a month

#84

Post by strictnein » Thu, May 04, 2023, 5:29 PM UTC

FredPret wrote: post #19

GiorgioG wrote: post #2

It won’t be my interest in saving the planet that stops me from buying cars, it’ll be bullshit like this. I want to own my car. I don’t want it to be connected (beyond acting as a hotspot) to the internet or to some central service. Have we not learned anything?

We tech folk may have learnt the lesson the hard way, but for the non-tech population the lesson is still coming.

Lots of the stuff we "tech folk" build is based on people owning nothing. Everything is [thing] as a Service.

Re: Mercedes EVs can go faster for $60 a month

#85

Post by olivermarks » Thu, May 04, 2023, 5:31 PM UTC

This is just all about recurring revenue from clueless people. In the USA SEMA needs to be supported before we lose even more control. https://www.sema.org/

Re: Mercedes EVs can go faster for $60 a month

#86

Post by gwbas1c » Thu, May 04, 2023, 5:34 PM UTC

I've had this (cough) "opportunity" in my Tesla for as long as I can remember. (Dual-motor Model 3, it's well-known that it's mostly software differences to make it the performance version.)

Guess what: My Tesla is fast enough. I don't feel any need to pay more money to make it go faster.

(I'm not going to whine about rent-seeking or how I own it and I should be able to do what I want with it. Instead, I'm going to point out that:)

Market forces will always push costs down and performance up. If a car company decides to artificially cripple their car so that you feel forced to pay extra; another car company is going to see that as a golden opportunity to undercut. Market forces will make sure that cars are "fast enough" at base price, because only timid drivers want an artificially slow car.

(And, yes, my Tesla does have an option to make the car artificially slow.)

Re: Mercedes EVs can go faster for $60 a month

#87

Post by _yb2s » Thu, May 04, 2023, 5:34 PM UTC

fowtowmowcow wrote: post #24

_yb2s wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want it to be simple and well tested so it doesn’t need updates, just like the physical parts of the car.

Even with the best programmers and safety measures in the world NASA still had to update the space shuttle. https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/shuttle/flyout/flyfeature...

I expect a car manufacturer to do extensive real world testing in all possible conditions- heat, traffic, etc. before selling it. A spaceship needs to work perfectly the first time, the actual use is also the only real world test of the prototype. It’s also a much harder problem… cars are much simpler and well understood “mature” tech where we have over a century of real world experience on what type of failures are possible and how to mitigate them.

Re: Mercedes EVs can go faster for $60 a month

#88

Post by mikestew » Thu, May 04, 2023, 5:35 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #81

vannevar wrote: post #64

The first EV startup that emerges with a dumb EV (minimal software to actually operate) for around $30K will have a best-seller. Nobody actually wants the subscription-based car, it's gradually being forced on consumers via industry collusion.

Why does it have to be a startup? You can buy a dumb EV for under $30K today from GM. And yeah, it does sell pretty well. The vast, vast majority of EVs sold today are not forcing subscriptions of any kind on their customers. A couple minor carmakers are trying a new business model.

The vast, vast majority of EVs sold today are not forcing subscriptions of any kind on their customers.

It's funny that you mention GM, because guess what GM wants to do with EVs starting next model year?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43488135/gm-apple-carplay...

(Last line of the article if you want to jump to the spoiler.)

Re: Mercedes EVs can go faster for $60 a month

#89

Post by mattlondon » Thu, May 04, 2023, 5:37 PM UTC

vannevar wrote: post #64

The first EV startup that emerges with a dumb EV (minimal software to actually operate) for around $30K will have a best-seller. Nobody actually wants the subscription-based car, it's gradually being forced on consumers via industry collusion.

MG in Europe are like this - cheap and cheerful and minimal software beyond android auto/car play etc

Re: Mercedes EVs can go faster for $60 a month

#90

Post by justsomehnguy » Thu, May 04, 2023, 5:39 PM UTC

entrox wrote: post #74

horsawlarway wrote: post #38

I want to see this legislated out of existence. To be clear, because every time this comes up some dickfucks come in here and start making excuses about how it's better to rent in some cases and that this is just amortizing the whole payment, and there are some people who want this: No. This is a fucking terrible deal even just using mercedes numbers. It takes a whopping 30 months (2.5 years) for the monthly payment…

> You will be charged fucking $6000 dollars for a item that is already present in your car. How so? The one-time fee is $1950. Also, this is nothing new: top end Mercedes-AMG cars always had an optional "AMG Driver's Package" [0] for years now, which did nothing but electronically unlock Vmax from 250km/h to 290km/h. No changes in hardware at all. It used to retail for around $2500. Now you have the possibility to or…

> You might not like it, but it's actually a better deal than before.

So if Apple would ask you for a nice $10/m to use their famous iPhone camera features you would be okay with that, because otherwise you would be fine with 8MP photos or pay additional $10 * 12m * 3y = $360 upfront? Of course, no changes in hardware at all. And the price of iPhone is the same, not $360 cheaper.