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Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

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Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#81

Post by bee_rider »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #45
alwayslikethis wrote: post #3

Good luck. They tried to block it in Russia, but it simply broke their own internet for a while and the effectiveness was spotty until they gave up. To this day I believe there is quite little cooperation between the Russian government and Telegram, despite not being E2EE by default, if we don't consider conspiracy theories, unlike all the other services used in Russia which are basically all backdoored by the state…

> I don't think Telegram has a legal presence in Brazil though. How are they going to enforce the fine? You're commenting on the news of their enforcement. They are completely fine with blocking Telegram nation-wide until they reveal the user data and pay the fine. Don't give me that "good luck" speech either. The article mentions the same judges blocked Telegram last year. I submitted news of that here and people he…

Paying the fine could be a reasonable decision, depending on their priorities.

Paying the fine and providing the user data basically renders the whole service pointless, right? It is better to be blocked in Brazil than to be useless everywhere I guess.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#82

Post by matheusmoreira »

justinclift wrote: post #68
buitreVirtual wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they can talk to the representatives. They cannot make them remove the app.

Can't they also throw the representative in jail (etc)?

They can, and they have. Big Tech representatives in the country have been jailed for not fully complying with court orders.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/facebook-executive-released-fro...

Google representatives too, if I remember correctly. Something to do with Google not erasing some celebrity's leaked nude photos from search results.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#83

Post by matheusmoreira »

schoen wrote: post #64
matheusmoreira wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This time the DNS block was ordered directly by a supreme court judge. No one can overturn that. Also, the political scenario was different. Brazil used to at least pretend to be a democracy with a constitution and rule of law. Since then, these supreme court judges have done far worse than block some messaging service. This is literally nothing to people like them.

> This time the DNS block was ordered directly by a supreme court judge. No one can overturn that. I think you're mistaken, unless there was an incredibly rapid sequence of events in this case. https://static.poder360.com.br/2023/04/decisao-telegram-grup... Seção Judiciária do Espírito Santo 1ª Vara Federal de Linhares [...] assinado por WELLINGTON LOPES DA SILVA That would be a first instance (trial) court, not any…

Yeah, looks like I'm mistaken. I think I read "federal judge" and mentally substituted supreme court. I apologize.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#84

Post by p-e-w »

bhk wrote: post #29

Doesn't this sound like a dictatorship?

The word "dictatorship" doesn't actually mean anything. Its sole purpose is to attack certain institutions and/or governments, while excluding other institutions and governments from criticism even though they share most or all of the same characteristics.

Instead of asking whether or not XYZ is a dictatorship, ask "are they following their own laws and constitution?", "are they respecting universal human rights?", and "in whose interests are they acting?". The answers to those questions are absolutely enlightening and make the differences between countries commonly considered dictatorships and countries commonly considered democracies almost vanish.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#85

Post by matheusmoreira »

dancemethis wrote: post #69
matheusmoreira wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. We brazilians are living under a judiciary monarchy of sorts. The supreme court basically does whatever it wants.

[flagged]

> Nah, there is equilibrium between the three powers.

Not really. Judiciary is basically governing the country. Supreme court legislates by basically interpreting or ignoring laws however they want. This isn't just me either, actual lawyers have told me this to my face years ago. Only now do I fully appreciate the truth of those words.

I mean, a supreme court judge just presented his "suggestions" for the censorship laws currently under discussion. The same guy who basically ran all over the constitution during last year's election over "fake news" in political campaigns. You gotta be kidding me.

Every single day it's news like this one. Supreme court suspends Bolsonaro's law. Supreme court votes that same law back into effect. You'd think they're running the country... And they are. The stroke of a pen makes police do whatever they want so yeah.

> You don't see them bickering with the current executive branch.

Not anymore anyway. The supreme court judges are openly partial to the party currently in power. There's videos of them hugging Lula like they're close friends. Hell, I remember watching a video of one of these judges literally say out loud he was proud of being partial towards the communists.

> Hearken back to like 12 years ago, before all those righty rats left the sewers. Much quieter times in the judiciary.

Welp. I'm not sure if you realize you're proving my point.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#86

Post by matheusmoreira »

anonymousiam wrote: post #63
matheusmoreira wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly against free speech... They are discussing a "fake news" law literally right now. It contains terms like "internet supervision entity".

Please clarify whether you are referring to some proposed law in Brazil or the RESTRICT act being proposed in the USA?

Proposed brazilian law against "fake news".

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#87

Post by LukeShu »

dancemethis wrote: post #65
NayamAmarshe wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm fairly certain it is deeply connected to Russia. Just as Signal, Facebook, Google, WhatsApp are deeply connected to the USA? > People believe it's encrypted but it's not for group chats or default for direct chats. The cloud and E2EE encryption of Telegram have already been audited by independent researchers. > They have money when Telegram is expensive to run They literally raised money (a billion dollars) by…

The server side is still proprietary. They could have just given "dummied" source code to "independent researchers". Chances are ALWAYS against regular people.

If it's encryoted E2E, then you don't need to inspect the server side to verify that. And the client is FOSS, anyone can inspect it. (It is my understanding that group chats are not encrypted; I have not cared to verify that one way or the other, but I could.)

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#88

Post by p-e-w »

alwayslikethis wrote: post #4
whatsu wrote: post #2

No company should think it's above the national laws

So they should also hand out the names and locations of people organizing anti-war protests in Russia if ever requested.

If they want to do business in Russia? Absolutely.

Fortunately, nobody is forcing them to do business in Russia. But doing so entails acceptance of whatever local rules there are, including rules the vast majority of people might consider wrong.

I can promise you that Facebook & Co happily hand information on any individual to US law enforcement as long as there is a court order. They don't look at the person in question and then decide based on their own sense of morality whether they "should" supply that information. They simply do it.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#89

Post by NayamAmarshe »

dancemethis wrote: post #65
NayamAmarshe wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm fairly certain it is deeply connected to Russia. Just as Signal, Facebook, Google, WhatsApp are deeply connected to the USA? > People believe it's encrypted but it's not for group chats or default for direct chats. The cloud and E2EE encryption of Telegram have already been audited by independent researchers. > They have money when Telegram is expensive to run They literally raised money (a billion dollars) by…

The server side is still proprietary. They could have just given "dummied" source code to "independent researchers". Chances are ALWAYS against regular people.

> The server side is still proprietary

Open sourcing it would make no difference. Signal's server is open source, yet the sources are always released late. For a whole year, Signal was running a totally different server code than the one they had made public, they even injected some crypto stuff and not a single person knew what the server was running.

This is the nature of servers. Backend is always unverifiable, even if it's got the latest code available to the public. The only thing open source backend is useful for is self-hosting, not verification.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#90

Post by vitorgrs »

alwayslikethis wrote: post #3

Good luck. They tried to block it in Russia, but it simply broke their own internet for a while and the effectiveness was spotty until they gave up. To this day I believe there is quite little cooperation between the Russian government and Telegram, despite not being E2EE by default, if we don't consider conspiracy theories, unlike all the other services used in Russia which are basically all backdoored by the state…

Since last year Telegram has a legal presence in Brazil.
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