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Dreams are the default for intelligence

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Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#81

Post by dragonwriter »

MacsHeadroom wrote: post #64
gabereiser wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oddly enough, we've been saying that since... The Terminator. NN's and LLM's are cool but not even close to the power of the human brain (maybe quantum llm's?). I'm keen to see how we can tap into our own minds as CPU's or at least drivers thereof. Consciousness is awareness and perception so one could say we are close to a rudimentary consciousness but we have a long way to go before it's aware. Still, even though w…

> LLM's are cool but not even close to the power of the human brain There are only 20 Billion Neurons in the Neocortex. GPT-3 has 175 Billion. GPT-4 scores 130 on IQ tests. They are absolutely in the realm of the power of human brains. They're just exposed to different stimuli and have very narrow input/output.

> There are only 20 Billion Neurons in the Neocortex. GPT-3 has 175 Billion.

No, parameters are loosely analogous to synapses (they are weights on the connections between neurons) not neurons, and the neocortex is not the whole of the brain. There are about 140 trillion synapses in the neocortex, 600 trillion in the brain. And neural connections may not explain the brain's capacity, as mutual interaction with other body systems is involved.

> GPT-4 scores 130 on IQ tests.

Methodological issues (or simply methodological unclarity) with the reports of GPT-4 test results aside, IQ tests do not directly test general intelligence, even under the assumption that g is the same thing as general intelligence. They are a proxy which works for testing that in humans, because in humans the capacities directly tested by them correlate with g. We have no idea what IQ testing results of LLMs, even conducted appropriately, mean, if anything.

> They are absolutely in the realm of the power of human brains.

No, to steal from Pulp Fiction, an LLM and a human brain “ain’t even the same f###ing thing. […] Ain’t no f###ing ballpark neither. […] It ain’t the same league. It ain’t even the same f###ing sport.”

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#82

Post by pengaru »

kordlessagain wrote: post #77
pengaru wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently I switched from taking a lions mane supplement in capsule form to mixing some powder into my morning tea, since I can get the powder for far less $$ and it's usda organic on top of it. For some reason this has resulted in persistent lucid dreaming before waking up, daily, for over a month now. The capsules rarely caused this, but something about the tea seems to be affecting the bio-availability, or maybe th…

Have you noticed any differences in your ability to form internal imagery while awake? There’s a post on Reddit where the subject appears to have had that ability affected by Lions Mane.

Not sure, got a link to the Reddit comment/thread?

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#84

Post by southernplaces7 »

All of the suggestions here for conducting certain "physical" or mental tests to know if you're dreaming or not presuppose that you're capable of enough self awareness to realize you might be dreaming, and act on your suspicions. For most of us, being inside a dream, no matter how surreal, feels like being in another concrete reality in which it doesn't even occur to you to test its falsehood, because you take its realness as a given.

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#85

Post by ilkke »

electrondood wrote: post #45
JoeyJoJoJr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would look at my hands in lucid dreams and they would appear in extreme detail, as if I could comprehend both its general form as well as every single grove in my fingerprints. I’m pretty sure I tried to turn them over and was able to see all around them. One thing I find fascinating about dreaming is that it seems that the dream wants to prevent you from staying lucid. When I become aware that I am dreaming I “wak…

> the dream wants to prevent you from staying lucid What we consider waking life, reality, etc. is the same. The mechanism of the hypnosis is the constant identification with phenomena, which creates the sense of being a person, which is nothing more than a conceptual abstraction.

Can you please elaborate more, our provide some sources for further inquiry?

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#86

Post by refset »

lucas_membrane wrote: post #69
refset wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can relate heavily. The recurring ability to hover by kicking my legs around is profoundly liberating and a deeply familiar sensation at this point. Dreams feel like living a parallel life :)

The ability to levitate in dreams is very useful, because dreams typically are unable to make your legs actually move. Thus, the feeling of walking is not easily fantasized realistically, and immobility of the main character is not something that many the unpaid screenwriter will refuse to take lying down.

True! Life finds a way. I wonder whether real-life athletes etc. benefit from a more realistic dream legs simulation experience.

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#87

Post by jspiral »

refset wrote: post #43
kgwxd wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually become highly aware I’m dreaming when I’m able to kind of float around (not fly, more like low gravity mixed with a near-floor hovering) but the “wow” of it turns into “this is just reality, no big deal” so fast I never get a chance to try to consciously shape the dream.

I can relate heavily. The recurring ability to hover by kicking my legs around is profoundly liberating and a deeply familiar sensation at this point. Dreams feel like living a parallel life :)

that sounds like a description of scuba diving to me, maybe worth a try if you haven’t

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#88

Post by sph »

nocsi wrote: post #50
mrangle wrote: post #35

Possibly related: I have a pet theory that holds that primarily attentive ADHD (ADHD-PI) is actually a facet of the type of autism that used to be called Asperger's. And that ADHD, generally, is an extension just outside of the autism spectrum: possibly bridging into it with ADHD-PI if not the other ADHD classifications. One of ADHD-PI's most noticeable traits is virtually uncontrollable daydreaming. When auditory /…

It’s not just the visual processing aspect but also the ability to assemble completely novel mental imageries. There’s a link between those with ADHD and having hyperphantasia, or having extremely vivid imaginations. Can someone daydream if they can’t imagine objects?

Yes. I have ADHD, chronically daydream and have aphantasia.

You don't need to see things with your inner eye to be able to conjure them in your fantasies. Daydreaming is just being preoccupied on something that only exists in their mind. It's not a strictly visual phenomenon.

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#89

Post by 6stringronin »

mrangle wrote: post #35

Possibly related: I have a pet theory that holds that primarily attentive ADHD (ADHD-PI) is actually a facet of the type of autism that used to be called Asperger's. And that ADHD, generally, is an extension just outside of the autism spectrum: possibly bridging into it with ADHD-PI if not the other ADHD classifications. One of ADHD-PI's most noticeable traits is virtually uncontrollable daydreaming. When auditory /…

That's an interesting theory. I don't know if this helps you draw a distinction but you may find this this paper by the NIH interesting, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4153434/

They state that generally females are diagnosed adhd-pi higher, but there may be other factors. However, Females are generally diagnosed less with autism:

(From wikipedia) "Several theories exist to explain the sex-based discrepancy, such as a genetic protective effect,[7][8][9] the extreme male brain theory[10][11] and phenotypic differences in the presentation between sexes,[9][12][13][14] which may all be intertwined. Researchers have also debated whether a diagnostic gender bias has played a role in females being underdiagnosed with autism spectrum disorder.[15] Researchers have also speculated a gender bias in parental reporting due to the expectations and socialization of gender roles in society.[16]"

Thought I would indulge your theory, and give more food for thought.

Re: Dreams are the default for intelligence

#90

Post by tabtab »

idleproc wrote: post #12

I read a book about lucid dreaming a while back, and it said something like: the easiest way to tell you are in a dream is to look at something mechanical or complicated. The idea seemed to be: if you could get your dreaming mind to look at your hand and then turn it over to the other side, you didn't have the mental 'bandwidth' to imagine the opposite side correctly, and you'd realize you were dreaming. Equally, if…

My thinking is not coherent enough while asleep to run all those experiments. A few times I've asked "am I dreaming?" in dreams, but following any step-by-step process after that thought is just not in the cards. My thought patters are just as disjointed as the scenery and events "inside".
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