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Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

hetzner.com

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Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#81

Post by jeffbee »

daneel_w wrote: post #54
jeffbee wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have access to them a much more informative datapoint would be `openssl speed rsa` or `lzbench`. Sysbench is just a stunt it doesn't indicate much at all.

Sysbench is a better synthetic test in my opinion because it does a lot of varied grinding instead of trying to evaluate the entire CPU using just one very narrow and specific task. Even on the same Linux distribution there can be a lot of differences between x86 and Arm builds because OpenSSL cannot be entirely orthogonal in its use of assembly optimizations and CPU crypto acceleration, even for the RSA benchmark. T…

`sysbench cpu` basically measures whether a single primitive inside sysbench is correctly optimized for your platform which is almost meaningless. Its run-to-run variation is enormous because there is a lot riding on whether particular data structure is optimally placed and aligned, which sysbench makes no effort to control. On a typical hyperthreaded x86 machine you will get 100% variance or worse depending on whether sysbench's 2 threads are placed on the same core or on different cores, so you must control that with `taskset` if you want the result to mean anything.

On my local machine with 4 threads I get ~10k events per second on cores 0+2+4+6, but on cores 8-11 I get ~13k. Does this mean that Gracemont Atom is 30% faster than Golden Cove Core? No, it is only measuring the fact that the efficiency cores happen to share an L2 cache.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#83

Post by Aldipower »

nr2x wrote: post #62
Galaco wrote: post #38

Never figured out how to use Hertzner. Wanted to try since they get such a good reputation on here, but they banned my account when their system presented no way for me to verify my identity. The required either PayPal or passport. I have no PayPal account, and their 3rd party verification system only allows passport from your country of residence (signup requires providing a contact address and they pre fill using t…

I’m currently setting up infrastructure for a startup and it’s been very interesting how the threat model of data loss and disaster recovery is no longer hardware failure: it’s account lock out. I’ve got streaming replication of my core data going from one cloud company to other company as that way if one has some antifraud system go rogue on me I still have access. As somebody who used to spend a lot of time thinkin…

Exactly. My main infrastructure is on Hetzner, but I have a live replication via Wireguard at another hoster in Austria. With less resources there, but for accessibility "in the case of".

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#84

Post by layer8 »

regularfry wrote: post #40
cstuder wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any recommendations for an uncomplicated server OS which will just run Docker, SSH and not much more? I'm currently running Ubuntu but am open to alternatives. My local Raspberry Pi uses a fun, but little maintained OS called Hypriot which is just this: Start Docker and not much more.

Just stick Debian on it. It'll be familiar enough from your Ubuntu experience, and if all you're going to do is slap Docker on it and run everything in containers you can just use Debian Stable, not care that things in the repo might not be bang up to date, stick unattended-upgrades on it, and never really worry about it until dist-upgrade time.

Seconding this.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#85

Post by RockyMcNuts »

re-thc wrote: post #35
solalf wrote: post #3

Could somebody walk me through why ARM based servers are so inexpensive compared to their x86 counterparts? Is performance much lower? 16 cores & 32gb of RAM for less than 25 euros seems like a bargain.

Demand and supply. Even if they did offer equal performance most of your docker images and other binaries may need to be rebuilt. The inertia is hard to beat. AWS has been trying really hard with Graviton 3.

in other words less competition, more market power tax

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#86

Post by subsequentmask »

cstuder wrote: post #34
subsequentmask wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are VPSs. You can SSH, use the root user, and when setting up you can choose what OS to use, they give a list or iirc they let you upload your own ISO.

Any recommendations for an uncomplicated server OS which will just run Docker, SSH and not much more? I'm currently running Ubuntu but am open to alternatives. My local Raspberry Pi uses a fun, but little maintained OS called Hypriot which is just this: Start Docker and not much more.

I'm quite a large fan of Debian, it's my go to choice for anything server personally. It's pretty good for what you want here IMHO, it's stable so you won't really have to worry about packages screwing you over and like another comment said you can stick unattended-upgrades on it :)

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#87

Post by stu2b50 »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #59

I don't understand the hype around ARM64 in the server space. Is this just due to all the marketing from Apple around their proprietary M processors leaking into the enterprise market? The latest Xeon and EPYC offerings are very performance competitive, I doubt we need to overhaul and entire processor ISA paradigm for continued improvements.

The hype is because Intel and AMD have an enforced duopoly of x86, because only they own the licenses to x86-64 and you'll take it from their cold dead hands.

So, if you want to compete, you'll have to go ARM. Amazon graviton and Apples M series have only made it more appealing.

The main reason to switch is cost.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#88

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

Galaco wrote: post #38

Never figured out how to use Hertzner. Wanted to try since they get such a good reputation on here, but they banned my account when their system presented no way for me to verify my identity. The required either PayPal or passport. I have no PayPal account, and their 3rd party verification system only allows passport from your country of residence (signup requires providing a contact address and they pre fill using t…

I think they really care about two things: VAT and cryptocurrency. Passports are required to prove you should or should not pay the 19% VAT, and crypto (namely, SIA) destroy their servers.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#89

Post by junon »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #59

I don't understand the hype around ARM64 in the server space. Is this just due to all the marketing from Apple around their proprietary M processors leaking into the enterprise market? The latest Xeon and EPYC offerings are very performance competitive, I doubt we need to overhaul and entire processor ISA paradigm for continued improvements.

It's really just a matter of time at this point. X86 is a bloated nightmare that is a pain to deal with and has a rich history of vulnerabilities where the patches typically affect performance.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#90

Post by xenic »

re-thc wrote: post #35
solalf wrote: post #3

Could somebody walk me through why ARM based servers are so inexpensive compared to their x86 counterparts? Is performance much lower? 16 cores & 32gb of RAM for less than 25 euros seems like a bargain.

Demand and supply. Even if they did offer equal performance most of your docker images and other binaries may need to be rebuilt. The inertia is hard to beat. AWS has been trying really hard with Graviton 3.

Base docker images, such as Ubuntu have support for multiple architectures.

Building your own based on them isn’t really difficult at all; docker buildx works remarkably well and build tools such as maven, sbt, etc. seem to have rather decent support for building multiarch images.

Even better if you have decent build automation, implement cross building for amd64 and arm64 once and just make sure your FROM images support those.

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