Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 315 posts

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#81

Post by JumpCrisscross »

InitialLastName wrote: post #58
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it baffles me that as of today I can still add a "Full Self-Driving Capability" option when ordering a Tesla Capability, not feature. I know that isn’t how it’s marketed. But Elon isn’t claiming he has Level 5 right now. Most FSD buyers seem aware they’re paying into a research effort. Fraud requires knowledge and intent. You’re making a good case for a class action lawsuit, i.e. civil action. Not for putting someo…

Capability implies that the car can do the thing (software included). Until the car can do it, it's all "hypothetical capability". Selling a "capability" that won't get delivered within the expected lifetime of the car is just marketing garbage.

> Capability implies that the car can do the thing (software included)

It’s made clear that isn’t the definition of capability they’re using [1].

I am not a fan of the Autopilot branding. But I struggle to see how someone buys FSD capability, realises their mistake on delivery and is then unable to get restitution through either a return or a resale.

[1] "the facility or potential for an indicated use or deployment," emphasis on "potential" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capability

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#82

Post by EamonnMR »

chrisbrandow wrote: post #59
standardUser wrote: post #35

I have a really hard time believing that non-violent crimes should result in a person being locked in a cage. I'd rather see restrictions that limit their ability to do more damage, like when a reckless driver gets their license revoked. Besides, a free person with a job can pay back their debt to society, literally, with money, instead of the rest of us paying their living costs. EDIT: As comments point out, it is a…

I 100% agree. I hate to bring it up in the context of a criminal that is already priveleged and insulated from so much of the unfairness of the criminal justice system, but almost all non-violent crime should be handled in non-prison ways. Honestly, who is better off because she's sitting in a jail cell for years? Of course, it's legitimately hard for politicians to signal to voters that they take this stuff seriousl…

> Honestly, who is better off because she's sitting in a jail cell for years?

Anyone who needs to trust their blood test results. If faking such results lands you in jail, that makes me trust the results and I can make medically relevant decisions based on them.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#83

Post by gnu8 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #39
KindAndFriendly wrote: post #15

Reading this entire story, it baffles me that as of today I can still add a "Full Self-Driving Capability" option when ordering a Tesla.

> it baffles me that as of today I can still add a "Full Self-Driving Capability" option when ordering a Tesla Capability, not feature. I know that isn’t how it’s marketed. But Elon isn’t claiming he has Level 5 right now. Most FSD buyers seem aware they’re paying into a research effort. Fraud requires knowledge and intent. You’re making a good case for a class action lawsuit, i.e. civil action. Not for putting someo…

Is level 5 where you call a rich person black car service?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#84

Post by ok_dad »

LanceJones wrote: post #61
KindAndFriendly wrote: post #15

Reading this entire story, it baffles me that as of today I can still add a "Full Self-Driving Capability" option when ordering a Tesla.

I'm an FSD Beta user. If you stop reading at "Full Self Driving Capability", then yes, it's an issue for a potential purchaser. But if you read just a little bit more, it becomes more clear what you're buying. I don't feel "fooled" and neither do 1000s of other Beta testers with whom I regularly communicate on Discord.

> I'm an FSD Beta user... 1000s of other Beta testers

Ah, so the hundreds of thousands or millions who bought FSD years ago should be happy that a few thousand of you get to test out a system with your own lives. Great.

Edit: Don't bother responding if you're a Tesla or Elon fanboy/fangirl. I'm not interested in being insulted any longer by you folks.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#85

Post by nazka »

standardUser wrote: post #35

I have a really hard time believing that non-violent crimes should result in a person being locked in a cage. I'd rather see restrictions that limit their ability to do more damage, like when a reckless driver gets their license revoked. Besides, a free person with a job can pay back their debt to society, literally, with money, instead of the rest of us paying their living costs. EDIT: As comments point out, it is a…

I actually think it’s worst. One can be a problem of anger issues where, for a time, someone lost it and someone got punched in the face, the other is a long term thought calculated full aware of consequences and with no care for the other. It also usually results in several persons being impacted.

For instance Bayer knowing that their products were contaminated with HIV still chose to sell them. Monsanto with well all their stuff. Corporate crime is really crazier in my opinions. It’s armies of lawyers and businesses men, engineers and stuff having no problem for harm. It’s just less direct than a punch on the face.

Disclaimer: violence is still bad to horrible nonetheless.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#86

Post by estebank »

haliskerbas wrote: post #23
KindAndFriendly wrote: post #15

Reading this entire story, it baffles me that as of today I can still add a "Full Self-Driving Capability" option when ordering a Tesla.

$TSLA made enough people rich I suppose. I saw some gains myself although not on a large scale. Still don’t like the guy but there’s the old adage “for my friends everything, for my enemies the law”. If $TSLA plummets a crazy amount the tables may turn

> Still don’t like the guy but there’s the old adage

Interestingly, Juan Domingo Peron's version of that adage was "For our friends, everything. For our enemies, not even justice." I'm not sure which one is worse, but they are certainly both evocative.

> If $TSLA plummets a crazy amount the tables may turn

It depends. What happened here is that Holmes screwed over peers, and not just consumers. I don't think anything will happen to $TSLA's CEO unless except through malice aimed at his peers that affects their wealth.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#87

Post by JumpCrisscross »

sorokod wrote: post #78
standardUser wrote: post #35

I have a really hard time believing that non-violent crimes should result in a person being locked in a cage. I'd rather see restrictions that limit their ability to do more damage, like when a reckless driver gets their license revoked. Besides, a free person with a job can pay back their debt to society, literally, with money, instead of the rest of us paying their living costs. EDIT: As comments point out, it is a…

How would you rationalize violent/non-violent as boundary for jail/no-jail?

> rationalize violent/non-violent as boundary for jail/no-jail

Government has a monopoly on violence. This is a founding theory of why we have states. Furthermore, violence causes damage money can’t fix. Most non-violent crimes’ damages can be dollarised within margin.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#88

Post by MPlus88 »

causi wrote: post #32
IIAOPSW wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but Holmes didn't steal $5k more than three times. She stole millions of dollars but only did it once. So your statute doesn't apply.

I'm flatly amazed they couldn't prove anybody died as a result of her deliberate greed-fueled negligence in providing fake medical test results. She should be charged with manslaughter.

Exactly. Knowingly endangering the lives of vulnerable people is despicable.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#89

Post by [deleted] »

shadowgovt wrote: post #27
ExMachina73 wrote: post #18

Any bets she actually reports? Odds anyone? I feel a woman of her means and personality may try to disappear, go off grid. Does she still have access to money? Were her assets frozen?

That would be a bad idea. Skipping town on a sentence puts one in a rarified category where enforcement is now a federal problem, and the FBI has long memories, an international reach, and no statute of limitations on how long they can hunt a person who is sentenced. At which point, if they fall back under US custody, they get to start their sentence (as well as go on trial for the additional penalties associated wit…

[deleted]

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#90

Post by JumpCrisscross »

nazka wrote: post #85
standardUser wrote: post #35

I have a really hard time believing that non-violent crimes should result in a person being locked in a cage. I'd rather see restrictions that limit their ability to do more damage, like when a reckless driver gets their license revoked. Besides, a free person with a job can pay back their debt to society, literally, with money, instead of the rest of us paying their living costs. EDIT: As comments point out, it is a…

I actually think it’s worst. One can be a problem of anger issues where, for a time, someone lost it and someone got punched in the face, the other is a long term thought calculated full aware of consequences and with no care for the other. It also usually results in several persons being impacted. For instance Bayer knowing that their products were contaminated with HIV still chose to sell them. Monsanto with well a…

> anger issues where, for a time, someone lost it and someone got punched in the face

This merits the consideration of jail time. Nobody said automatic jail for all violence—the facts and circumstances may merit mandated therapy, for instance. But if someone refuses and keeps popping off punches, yes, the isolation prerogative of jail time takes hold.

Post reply on HN