Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The One Thing I Can’t Stand About Teaching English in Japan (2019)

geekstravelinjapan.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 101 posts

Re: The One Thing I Can’t Stand About Teaching English in Japan (2019)

#81

Post by t-3 »

huijzer wrote: post #75
robwwilliams wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a wise comment and even applies along the north-south gradient in the USA. My family moved from New Haven CT (Yankee land) to Memphis TN—the latter being the heart of the South or the buckle of the Bible Belt. In Memphis if you ask a question or invite some one over to a party and they answer “I’ll try” that is a very polite and standard version of “Hell no”. We have lived here 34 years and I am still catchin…

This exact same difference exists between the North and the South of the Netherlands and also Germany. Even though it’s only a few hours away by car. In the US, the South is more explicit I guess? Here the North is more explicit.

> In the US, the South is more explicit I guess?

No, the south is more indirect and north is more direct. This is often seen in popular culture, with northerners depicted as rude and inhospitable, while southern hospitality and friendliness is famous, while also being contrasted as duplicitous to the "honest" northerners (smile in your face and stab your back kind of stuff, vs gruff and offensively blunt).

Re: The One Thing I Can’t Stand About Teaching English in Japan (2019)

#82

Post by molotovh »

atemerev wrote: post #67
atemerev wrote: post #40

I don’t see any problem with this. OK, if someone doesn’t want to talk to me, it’s their right. They don’t owe me any explanation or anything else. If I tried to repeatedly reach them and demand explanation — that’s borderline stalking to me. Cultural differences?

Judging from the number of downvotes, either I am even more socially inept than I ever thought before, or this is a genuine cultural difference.

In this case, it's because the teacher is now left not knowing whether they have an opening in their schedule for the student or not.

This is a freelance teacher who is responsible for finding her own clients and managing her own schedule. If you let them know that you won't be taking any more lessons, they can find another student. If you lie to them and they think you'll be back for your lesson next week, they aren't going to look for another student to fill your time slot. So when you don't show up, you've just cost them to opportunity to earn money from someone else.

If I were in the same situation, I would absolutely institute a policy of continuing to bill for the student's time slot until they formally cancel services. Given the level of conflict avoidance being practiced here, I foresee such a policy being quite profitable.

Re: The One Thing I Can’t Stand About Teaching English in Japan (2019)

#83

Post by reustle »

valbaca wrote: post #72

Can OP just keep charging them? As in build in a recurring rate into the contract. If they ghost, you keep charging them until they decide to cancel the contract. Just like how a doctor will charge a cancellation fee, you could probably do that as well / instead. Or up-front payments for x classes.

English teachers are a dime a dozen in Japan and are treated like garbage because of it. I doubt she has much sway over her contract.

Re: The One Thing I Can’t Stand About Teaching English in Japan (2019)

#84

Post by atemerev »

molotovh wrote: post #82
atemerev wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging from the number of downvotes, either I am even more socially inept than I ever thought before, or this is a genuine cultural difference.

In this case, it's because the teacher is now left not knowing whether they have an opening in their schedule for the student or not. This is a freelance teacher who is responsible for finding her own clients and managing her own schedule. If you let them know that you won't be taking any more lessons, they can find another student. If you lie to them and they think you'll be back for your lesson next week, they aren…

I assume they have paid in advance already, as I inferred from text. And yes, of course, everyone bills until formal cancellation, at least here in Switzerland.

Re: The One Thing I Can’t Stand About Teaching English in Japan (2019)

#85

Post by bsder »

timr wrote: post #37
oh_sigh wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the fact is Japanese people have no problem understanding what people are really saying. Things can be bluntly stated in Japanese even if their direct transliteration isn't blunt in English.

That's not true. There's no magical bat-signal that only Japanese people can read, and there are lots of contexts that even Japanese people talk about as ridiculously subtle to the point of fiendishness (funny example: I think it's at Bishamon-do temple in Kyoto, where there's a room that was used to "greet" guests who had no chance of meeting with anyone of importance -- the way you "knew" this was because the fusum…

> The primary "you need to understand this" difference about Japan rejection, IME, is that Japanese people readily accept anything other than an explicit yes as a clear no. Your average westerner tends to be really delusional about this, and the even the ones who accept it (like the author, apparently) are still hurt when it happens.

Somewhat. But the Japanese will try to exploit the asymmetry, too.

If a Japanese businessman says "Wakarimashita"(I understand) they mean "Pound sand". Do NOT take "I understand" as a "Yes, I agree." You will get burned.

However, if you as a Westerner delivers a "Wakarimashita" as a "No", the Japanese will get VERY VERY upset.

One of my favorite moments along these lines was dealing with a Japanese company who had dorked with us for almost 24 months (also a Japanese cliche) but now finally needed the deal to go through quickly. As they impressed upon us the newfound importance of the deal my response was "Wakarimashita" with lots of nods and a wide, friendly smile...

Watching the facial expression on a half-dozen people on the other side of the table darken visibly was quite glorious. The Japanese discovered that "Wakarimashita" can also mean "Bend over" in addition to "Pound sand".

Re: The One Thing I Can’t Stand About Teaching English in Japan (2019)

#86

Post by bsder »

FabHK wrote: post #24

> I prefer someone blunt and clear who will say what they mean. I don’t care if they don’t say it in the nicest of ways, as long as they say it. Speak your heart! If that's the author's preference (fair enough), then Japan is not the right place for them (in that respect). Intercultural Communication 101. Either learn to deal with it and stop taking it personally, or move somewhere else. (Or, sure, go on a one-person…

> Either learn to deal with it and stop taking it personally, or move somewhere else.

To be fair, I would expect that HN would have a bit more sympathy for the fact that the ambiguity means that she has to hold open a "schedule slot" that she could otherwise sell to somebody else.

My friend teaches guitar and has to deal with this all the time. "I'd like to cancel the lesson." "That's great, but you still need to pay for it." "WHAT!?!?" "Look. You aren't just paying for being taught guitar. You are also paying for that 4:00PM Wednesday time slot that everybody in the universe wants."

Re: The One Thing I Can’t Stand About Teaching English in Japan (2019)

#87

Post by contravariant »

sdfghswe wrote: post #51
contravariant wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes me wonder if the author would get more response by phrasing it with less 'finality'. More 'please let me know if online lessons are not convenient right now' and less 'if online lessons are not good enough let me know to my face and we can end this forever'.

Possibly, but the way I read it, ghosting wasn't just associated with this last "online lessons" episode, but had happened before many times. At least the way she tells it sounds it was very common.

Sure, I'm just wondering why it happened in this instance. Apparently telling a teacher you won't need them anymore is a kind of impossible situation for them, so I was wondering if offering them an 'out' would help.

Otherwise you get some weird conflict where they need to tell a teacher, which I think is automatically a superior?, that they're no longer required. So they're in a position where they need to 'criticize' a superior, and it looks like they choose to do so obliquely, and then just freeze when said superior asks them to tell it straight.

Re: The One Thing I Can’t Stand About Teaching English in Japan (2019)

#88

Post by fomine3 »

codethief wrote: post #6
bertil wrote: post #2

Does Japanese aversion to confrontation trigger this behaviour?

Came here to ask the same thing. If so, how do people quit their jobs then, or do break-ups? They just never do or do they just disappear over night?

Because of that, there are proxy services that handle quit job for you. (though it's happened within this decade) https://www.taishokudaikou.com/

Re: The One Thing I Can’t Stand About Teaching English in Japan (2019)

#89

Post by fomine3 »

Liquix wrote: post #36
bertil wrote: post #2

Does Japanese aversion to confrontation trigger this behaviour?

Perhaps also a strong sense of duty and shame - after skipping one lesson they are too embarrassed to show up again. Each successive failure to respond deepens the embarrassment, making facing the instructor again an unthinkably difficult task. The same thing can happen with lack of attendance at university classes in other countries.

This is my mind. If cancellation is available through a web form, it's easy. However, having to communicate it through a conversation makes me nervous.

Re: The One Thing I Can’t Stand About Teaching English in Japan (2019)

#90

Post by afterburner »

paddw wrote: post #47
afterburner wrote: post #46

"They knew of my miscarriage" So there appears to be a misunderstanding here. The enthousiastic-seeming politeness of one culture has accidentally convinced someone from a different culture that there was more emotional connection than there really was. Just don't fall for it. It's mostly for show. Excessive politeness at a mass cultural level like that is simply an obligation. But this teacher doesn't understand tha…

I think it's less there is a misunderstanding, and more the author is simply expressing their frustration with this aspect of Japanese culture.

The misunderstanding is that she thinks the displays of politeness are evidence the people care about her in a deep and long lasting way. But they don't, they're simply being polite, and when they no longer want her services they don't want to interact any more.
Post reply on HN