Is it my fault if you can't handle the truth? (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: Is it my fault if you can't handle the truth? (2019)

#81

Post by cortesoft » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 11:44 PM UTC

yarg wrote: post #22

geraneum wrote: post #4

This reminds me of: “People who are brutally honest get more satisfaction out of the brutality than out of the honesty.” Richard J. Needham

I think that there's the need to a counterpoint to the world that says "you're beautiful, you're smart, you're perfect just the way you are.". A lot of the time the modern world tells us that feelings are more important than objective reality. It's bullshit.

I really don’t think the problems in this world are caused by people having too much self esteem. Many times, the toxic behaviors we observe that seem to be caused by excessive self esteem are actually caused by insecurity.

Re: Is it my fault if you can't handle the truth? (2019)

#82

Post by ethanbond » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 11:44 PM UTC

PicassoCTs wrote: post #21

I wield the truth proudly, because it cut my hands when i picked it up, it slices them when i wield it and it hurts even more when i knight you with it. I actively search out discomfort, i embrace knowledge about my retardation and i attempt to work out solutions for them. I detest the hive, the cuddling together in falsehood and illusions, the disasters it has spawned time and time again, the justifications for evil…

Most atrocities and injustices are committed by people who believed wholeheartedly they have The Truth.

People who legitimately doubt their own beliefs have a hard time conjuring up much malice, and an impossible time conjuring it up in other people.

Re: Is it my fault if you can't handle the truth? (2019)

#83

Post by SV_BubbleTime » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 11:46 PM UTC

DuckFeathers wrote: post #33

I have not met anyone who has this attitude who also happens to be a person of good breadth or depth of understanding of ANYTHING. This doesn't mean they don't exist, it's just that I can't begin to imagine what they'd be like because for all I care, they don't seem to exist. They don't have the breadth or depth of understanding of things not for the lack of trying either. It's just that they shut down everything tha…

Agreed. I had trouble finishing the blog post without wanting to quit from arrogance overload. The “questions” at the end seem like they are for me, but not them, they’re above all that.

Re: Is it my fault if you can't handle the truth? (2019)

#84

Post by maxbond » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 11:46 PM UTC

yarg wrote: post #22

geraneum wrote: post #4

This reminds me of: “People who are brutally honest get more satisfaction out of the brutality than out of the honesty.” Richard J. Needham

I think that there's the need to a counterpoint to the world that says "you're beautiful, you're smart, you're perfect just the way you are.". A lot of the time the modern world tells us that feelings are more important than objective reality. It's bullshit.

I find this a bit perplexing. What value is there in telling people they aren't beautiful or smart? What objective sense of beauty and smartness are you trying to hold them to?

I can understand being bothered by things that are overly saccharine, I just don't understand the value proposition in providing a "counterpoint" or trying to check this in some way.

Re: Is it my fault if you can't handle the truth? (2019)

#85

Post by swayvil » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 11:49 PM UTC

yarg wrote: post #22

geraneum wrote: post #4

This reminds me of: “People who are brutally honest get more satisfaction out of the brutality than out of the honesty.” Richard J. Needham

I think that there's the need to a counterpoint to the world that says "you're beautiful, you're smart, you're perfect just the way you are.". A lot of the time the modern world tells us that feelings are more important than objective reality. It's bullshit.

Objective reality is a device built from feelings. The precise mechanism stands on pure moosh.

Re: Is it my fault if you can't handle the truth? (2019)

#86

Post by PTOB » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 11:50 PM UTC

doubled112 wrote: post #34

the_snooze wrote: post #5

>Even if my words are accurate, rational, and true, the way I deliver them may color that truth with an entirely different message. A doctor can deliver bad news of a terminal diagnosis with seriousness and sympathy. Or they can just glibly say "Don't bother buying green bananas."

> Don't bother buying green bananas I can't be the only one who thinks this delivery might be hilarious? Of course, I respect and understand that not everybody would find it to be.

You're right. I too would find that hilarious. In fact, I'd be laughing, crying, and very grateful all at the same time I think.

Re: Is it my fault if you can't handle the truth? (2019)

#87

Post by jmyeet » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 11:53 PM UTC

What a load of nonsense. Not only that, this is dangerous and frequently weaponized.

People routinely use the idea something said was hurtful and that's way more important than the merits of what was said. This immediately changes the conversation. It's the basis of cry-bullying, for example.

Fragility, usually imagined but sometimes real, is so often weaponized to deflect from the merits.

Re: Is it my fault if you can't handle the truth? (2019)

#88

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 11:53 PM UTC

brhsagain wrote: post #43

I'd argue that telling someone the truth does absolve you of responsibility, because if the truth upsets someone, what they're actually upset about is the reality of the universe. Or if it's a truth about them, then the reality about themselves. The truth-teller is just the messenger. Each person is responsible for how they deal with reality, including the parts they don't like. I get what the article is saying. Give…

1. Often "you can't handle the truth" is used for something that is... less than the truth. The speaker wants it to just be the truth, with no argument, but they're ignoring some very relevant issues/context/details/data. When that's pointed out, they say "you can't handle the truth". No, you (the one claiming this is "the truth") can't handle the complexity of reality, and are using this cliche to try to stop conversation that is threatening to make you deal with all the complexity of the real world. We're not actually upset (maybe a little annoyed at this person who won't listen accusing us of being unable to handle the truth). It's more you who are upset, and are either projecting that on us or pretending that it's us.

2. If you tell me the truth and you're a jerk about it, I may get offended by the truth, but I'm almost certain to get offended by you being a jerk. You are absolutely the cause of that part of us getting upset.

Re: Is it my fault if you can't handle the truth? (2019)

#89

Post by onos » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 11:53 PM UTC

The little diagram with five figures might have been better with 2^3 = 8 figures. One of these would be those that neglect truth for the sake of feelings, self and other. When social context is emphasized this is of course common behavior, a la the emperor’s new clothing.

It’s interesting that the three cases left out all involve neglecting truth.

Re: Is it my fault if you can't handle the truth? (2019)

#90

Post by The5thElephant » Thu, Apr 06, 2023, 11:53 PM UTC

sublinear wrote: post #75

The5thElephant wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment sounds like copy-pasta so not sure if it's being posted in disagreement or in satire. However if it is genuine, as someone who used to think this way I realize now it is falling for the same black and white worldview that you accuse the "insane" others of following. Is your goal to convince others of the truth, or to simply feel smug about convincing yourself you know the truth? You are enjoying the idea…

> Is your goal to convince others of the truth, or to simply feel smug about convincing yourself you know the truth? My experience has been that for most people who know the truth and state it bluntly, they don't care about either. They don't want to convince and they don't want to feel smug. They just want the truth to be known so they can wipe their hands and conscience and just move on. The world is not about stat…

I think we may be talking about different goals here. There is no effect in stating a "truth" that is not received and you don't enjoy stating. If they want the truth to be known, they need to make more effort for it to be communicated, not just heard or read. If there isn't even that desire, and it is purely for the sake of a pattern of sound passing through the air, what should be appreciated about that?

I am not talking about status or victory alone, I am also talking about moving things along and being effective in collaborative or social situations. As someone who used to believe (and still does to varying degrees) that they were one of those smart people floating through the world untouched, I had to learn the hard way why I was under-appreciated. Also considering how often my smart self has been wrong about things that at the time I was 100% certain I was right of, the floating through the world being right part begins to fall apart given enough time.

There is a space between throwing tantrums and being a self-absorbed dick, and that gray area is far more effective, moves things along faster, floats through the world being right better, and is far more appreciated than what the original comment and you are describing.