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Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

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Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#81

Post by khochesh_kushat »

rainworld wrote: post #58
watwut wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Because Finland joining NATO is direct response to Russia attacking Ukraine. The snub makes sense for two reasons: - Russia invaded under pretext of "we are afraid of NATO". - It prevents Russia from attacking Finland. They are less likely to attack NATO members and more likely to attack countries outside of the aliance.

Russia invaded under pretext of "we are afraid of NATO". NATO in Ukraine wasn’t a pretext it was (part of) the text. People in the West really seem to think Russia invaded to satisfy some vague desire for evil and villainy. People in the West really seem to think NATO and the EU being in a (proxy) war now with Russia over Ukraine disproves Russian concerns. It prevents Russia from attacking Finland Which was never go…

This is what all the smart people said about Ukraine prior to the invasion, that it was impossible and would never happen.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#83

Post by edgyquant »

rainworld wrote: post #58
watwut wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Because Finland joining NATO is direct response to Russia attacking Ukraine. The snub makes sense for two reasons: - Russia invaded under pretext of "we are afraid of NATO". - It prevents Russia from attacking Finland. They are less likely to attack NATO members and more likely to attack countries outside of the aliance.

Russia invaded under pretext of "we are afraid of NATO". NATO in Ukraine wasn’t a pretext it was (part of) the text. People in the West really seem to think Russia invaded to satisfy some vague desire for evil and villainy. People in the West really seem to think NATO and the EU being in a (proxy) war now with Russia over Ukraine disproves Russian concerns. It prevents Russia from attacking Finland Which was never go…

No one thinks it disproves their concerns, we all know there is concern is not being able to be push countries around.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#84

Post by timeon »

sprash wrote: post #48
sebzim4500 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be much more effective theater if they actually succeeded? Why pretend to be incompetent?

[flagged]

> Hence there is a backdoor deal between both faction to let the war progress at a very slow pace.

And your source is?

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#86

Post by ElectricalUnion »

watwut wrote: post #7
rainworld wrote: post #5

[flagged]

Yes. Because Finland joining NATO is direct response to Russia attacking Ukraine. The snub makes sense for two reasons: - Russia invaded under pretext of "we are afraid of NATO". - It prevents Russia from attacking Finland. They are less likely to attack NATO members and more likely to attack countries outside of the aliance.

> It prevents Russia from attacking Finland.

It's rather the opposite? It prevents NATO attacks from Finland; given how piss poor of a deterrent the Russian army is now, the nukes will most likely fly in this case.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#87

Post by tokai »

polski-g wrote: post #64
mcphage wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia could also take over all of Ukraine in about a week. I think that qualifies for a great big [Citation Needed].

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba

A Soviet experimental nuclear bomb that never was produced outside of a prototype. What is your point?

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#88

Post by nathanlied »

motohagiography wrote: post #6

[flagged]

The problem there is that you (and Putin) are viewing NATO's expansion as a curtailing of "Russia's sovereignty". Doing this probably means you take the view that the Spheres of Influence concept was correct: big blocs (Russia, China, US, EU) have an area of political/military/ideological influence that extends past their physical borders, and any other country exerting influence over the countries within those boundaries is de-facto threatening them, even if this influence is by and large the will of the people living in those regions.

The problem with this view is that you are completely alienating the sovereignty of countries within those buffer regions. As an example, take the Baltics: they were under Soviet influence (and actual control, at some points), fought it off, and never felt safe in their independence, because they were within Russia's sphere of influence, even if they weren't within Russia's borders. Within these people's minds, they weren't truly sovereign - the actions of their governments had to appease Russia, or otherwise risk military conflict with a major power, which they would very likely lose, losing what little sovereignty they had. You can certainly see why this would be undesirable for these buffer regions, I hope?

NATO (and later, to a lesser extent militarily but a larger extent economically and culturally, the EU) gave these countries a way out, a hope to get out of the "Russkiy Mir" - Russian World. While Russia was weakened and unwilling to engage in military conflict, they joined NATO, which meant that they no longer needed to pay any mind to Russian influence and sensibilities: if Russia wanted them back, they'd have a fighting chance, instead of being rolled over.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#89

Post by mantas »

foverzar wrote: post #67
GalenErso wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If his former exes asked for a restraining order against him, what incentive or assurance does he have for allowing them to break up with him?" The problem is Russia. Russia could be a normal country like its neighbors and make money from trading goods while wooing foreign investors, but Putin took the history books he read too seriously and thinks he can pull another round of territorial conquests. I don't see how…

> The problem is Russia. Russia could be a normal country like its neighbors and make money from trading goods > No one is encroaching on Russia's borders. This is really horrifying how the perspectives on the current directly oppose each other, completely Orwellian. It's not like it's some ancient history, all of this is following the lessons learned from interactions in the 2000s - when the US had been violating th…

Why do we have to put up with Russia's expansions due to „grievances“ that some other expansions were denied or questioned?

It's funny how Russia always pretend to be a victim when it's the aggressor. God forbid someone endangers „rightfully conquested“ territories :D

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#90

Post by edgyquant »

mantas wrote: post #74
motohagiography wrote: post #6

[flagged]

Mind to expand on „retaking its Baltic states“? I'd rather say a big portion of nowadays so-called „Russian federation“ is rightful territory of Baltic states, Poland and Finland.

Neither Finland or Poland are considered Baltic states in the normal sense of the words.
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