Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

presidentti.fi

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 218 posts

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#81

Post by haspok »

throwaway4aday wrote: post #68
alkonaut wrote: post #6

"I must invade a neighboring country to prevent having NATO on my doorstep" - Vladimir Vladimirovich, master strategist "Whoa, if countries are annexed willy nilly then we better join NATO before it happens to us" - Every single one of those doorsteps

Aggressive war is inexcusable and I condemn all nations that engage in it including Russia and the United States. Ukraine has a right to its sovereignty just as all other nations do, but what you posted is shallow thinking. Look at a map of Europe, put yourself in the mind of a highly suspicious and pessimistic person and ask yourself "how would I invade Russia?" "how do I get an SRBM or MRBM within striking range of…

> If peace was the goal then both sides need to agree to an immediate ceasefire and withdrawal of both military and political forces. A new agreement needs to be reached that places Ukraine as a neutral, sovereign country and both sides should pay for reconstruction efforts and restitution to survivors.

This is clear Russian propaganda.

You "seem to forget" that Russia attacked Ukraine, committed several war crimes... Ukraine would be the happiest if the Russians GTFO and left them to be . They should even pay for the reconstruction costs and should be punished for their war crimes. That would almost make things even.

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#82

Post by Animatronio »

postingawayonhn wrote: post #76
Animatronio wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It probably would have deterred Russia from invading and saved most NATO countries a ton of money. Basically the entire point of NATO is to stop Russia going to war with its neighbiors. And now Ukraine is going to be quite a week equipped and experienced ally. Certainly a country NATO should be happy to have on its side.

But NATO literally (and I also mean geographically) NATO has Ukr on its side. So what more would a country like say Portugal gain from Ukraine's NATO membership, except perhaps having to contribute to their defense even more?

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#84

Post by flexie »

Animatronio wrote: post #59
credit_guy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand who you think is to blame here? Was NATO supposed to accept Ukraine without Ukraine applying for membership?

[flagged]

Ukrainian NATO membership does benefit NATO in several ways:

- Ukraine is the only country in Europe to have fought off NATO's main adversary

- Ukraine has a large, powerful and experienced army, much larger than those of most NATO countries

- Ukraine in NATO will be seen by the older NATO members as a adding another buffer state

- Ukraine in NATO will be seen by the newer NATO members such as the Baltic countries or Poland, as having another ally bordering Russia

- Ukraine is a new democracy and is (was) a rising economy. It benefits NATO to include these in NATO

- The populations of most European NATO countries are in favor of Ukrainian membership.

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#85

Post by coffeebeqn »

arethuza wrote: post #28
pm2222 wrote: post #22

HELSINKI (AP) — Finland's main conservative party claimed victory in parliamentary elections Sunday in a tight three-way race that saw right-wing populists take second place, leaving Prime Minister Sanna Marin's Social Democratic Party in third, dashing her hopes for reelection.

Not sure that is relevant as I thought every major party in Finland agrees with joining NATO?

NATO is the consensus position. This election was about Finland’s growing indebtedness which has kept getting worse

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#87

Post by jeromegv »

throwaway4aday wrote: post #68
alkonaut wrote: post #6

"I must invade a neighboring country to prevent having NATO on my doorstep" - Vladimir Vladimirovich, master strategist "Whoa, if countries are annexed willy nilly then we better join NATO before it happens to us" - Every single one of those doorsteps

Aggressive war is inexcusable and I condemn all nations that engage in it including Russia and the United States. Ukraine has a right to its sovereignty just as all other nations do, but what you posted is shallow thinking. Look at a map of Europe, put yourself in the mind of a highly suspicious and pessimistic person and ask yourself "how would I invade Russia?" "how do I get an SRBM or MRBM within striking range of…

> Both parties are

No, not both sides. Ukraine was perfectly to stay home and take care of their own citizens. There's only one country that invaded the other and started stealing their kids and bomb their population.

Russia can leave anytime, peace will be immediate.

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#88

Post by tejohnso »

IgorPartola wrote: post #47

As a Ukrainian immigrant living in the US the current situation in Ukraine is infuriating. I left Ukraine when I was a teenager nearly a quarter of a century ago and it was obvious to me then that sooner or later Russia would want its breadbasket back and an invasion would happen. How was this not clear to those in power? Zelinsky started the process of trying to get the country’s ducks in a row to be able to join NA…

As a Ukrainian immigrant, how do you feel about the claims that ehtno-Russians in eastern Ukraine were being harassed and killed and having their culture made illegal by the Ukrainian government or its actors? There's so much propaganda on both sides. How do you feel about western involvement in 2014?

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#89

Post by arrrg »

throwaway4aday wrote: post #68
alkonaut wrote: post #6

"I must invade a neighboring country to prevent having NATO on my doorstep" - Vladimir Vladimirovich, master strategist "Whoa, if countries are annexed willy nilly then we better join NATO before it happens to us" - Every single one of those doorsteps

Aggressive war is inexcusable and I condemn all nations that engage in it including Russia and the United States. Ukraine has a right to its sovereignty just as all other nations do, but what you posted is shallow thinking. Look at a map of Europe, put yourself in the mind of a highly suspicious and pessimistic person and ask yourself "how would I invade Russia?" "how do I get an SRBM or MRBM within striking range of…

Just to be clear: Russia invaded Ukraine. I’m not sure why you are both-sidesing this.

Also, who are you talking about when you say "both sides"?Are you talking about Ukraine and Russia? Withdraw to where? Agreement with whom?

Please be specific.

Re: Finland Becomes a Member of NATO on Tuesday 4 April

#90

Post by coffeebeqn »

walkhour wrote: post #10

This is an excellent deal for Finland, whose sovereignty is protected. Is it the same for the US? Do I want an attack against Finland to be considered an attack against the US? An attack against the US can unleash the end of humanity. I find very risky to leave this at the whims of some out of touch Russian dictator.

If you’re mad at some of the Allies, be mad at the European “big powers” that have let their hard power rot and are unable to defend their interests in Europe (see Ukraine would be extinct without the US). Finland has an army more capable of defending their territory than any other EU country other than Poland after their latest expansion. They just prefer not to have to do that - hence NATO which raises the threshold to invade immensely
Post reply on HN