Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

lichess.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 108 posts

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#81

Post by 77pt77 »

kelipso wrote: post #80
77pt77 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still not competitive at the top level. Even being behaviorism real-life experiments.

World rank number 8 is not competitive? Lol. A single experiment getting to 8th ranked player is a major win for his theory. Tens of thousands of players try to get there and fail.

https://www.chess.com/article/view/best-chess-players-of-all...

Anyway, I really don't care about chess, so make of it whatever you want.

> A single experiment getting to 8th ranked player is a major win for his theory

That's not how it works.

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#82

Post by EGreg »

kstenerud wrote: post #79
EGreg wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Russia is doing is analogous to what USA did in the Cuban Missile Crisis. You can't allow a neighboring country, especially one that was a former ally, to join an enemy military alliance and pose an existential threat to some of your citizens, by, say, pointing nuclear missiles at you -- neither now nor in 15 years. Any country would react to being surrounded and cornered, including today's USA. That at least ha…

Aaaaand now we've taken a hard-right into propaganda territory, so I'll get off here. I would suggest consulting Timothy Snyder, Richard C. Levin Professor of History at Yale University, specializing in the modern history of Central and Eastern Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_D._Snyder His lectures are available on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJczLlwp-d8

So no amount of logic, moral argumentation matter, and links to mainstream sources, words of the very political involved in brokering peace, or polls sampling billions of people are dismissed as "propaganda"? Can you please define what you mean by "propaganda" here -- you seem to be making a category error.

I don't understand. Are all Indians susceptible to propaganda, but you and Timothy Snyder know the actual truth? I can certainly listen to Dr. Snyder (I haven't) but it's going to be one opinion, one data point, for me. Not an absolute authority.

Can you at least answer my questions from a logical and moral point of view?

PS: Just in case your "hard right" implies that somehow this is a right-wing conspiracy or propaganda, I should point out that "the war could have been avoided and we should have peace talks" is understood by people on all sides of the political spectrum. The pope is on the left. The progressives in US Congress are lefties. Noam Chomsky is a leftist. They all say the same thing. Heck even the World Socialist Website highlights thousands of people in Spain protesting the NATO summit in Spain: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/05/02/ydws-m02.html

Propaganda... you keep using that word... I don't think it means what you think it means.

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#83

Post by effingwewt »

EGreg wrote: post #60
dragonwriter wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re going to downvote this, I would definitely appreciate if you at least write why you disagree. Downvoting says that “this is not a contribution to productive discussion on HN”. If it is worth discussing, it is not worth downvoting. > I am a libertarian, and I am against invasions, occupations, violence, and certainly against war crimes. I’m also against accepting millions of people’s lives being destroyed…

That's fine. You can ignore the But. And thank you for saying this: Downvoting says that “this is not a contribution to productive discussion on HN”. If it is worth discussing, it is not worth downvoting. I happen to think so as well. I don't downvote things unless they are completely derailing the conversation, disingenuous, malicious, etc. Any good-faith argument, especially if expressed clearly and with details, s…

It used to be as you say, then PG shat out some blogspam and downvotes became 'i disagree' as well, for the simple reason of 'pg mentioned it once'.

The times the correct information has been downvoted to 'dead' is pretty sad.

I used to make a game of replying on them to point out the hypocrisy.

Pg was also solely responsible for beginning sources with [0].

After the Garry Tan fit that was thrown here during the SVB fiasco, Dan is the only person associated with YC worth a shit IMHO.

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#84

Post by testrun »

EGreg wrote: post #52
smoldesu wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now we need that for Ukraine. I get what you're saying and I admire your attempt at a moderate take here. That being said, there is a global concept of civil conduct. It was pretty relaxed in the 1700s (you wont find many who disagree), but now we've moved on to recognizing sovereign nations and solving civil conflict without violence. Russia is resisting this path of conduct and threatening us rather than acceptin…

When did we move onto this? I guess you are referring to the UN, and the "rules-based international order" where you need UN approval to go bomb a country that didn't attack you. Stuff like that, right? Well, just to keep on that narrow focus (and not even invoking anything else), the USA and NATO has violated it multiple times in the last 25 years alone. Let's just take one relatively tame example: In 1999, NATO bom…

Just a question on a tangent: When you refer to Yugoslavia you mean the Federal republic Of Yugoslavia? The one that constituted Serbia and Kosovo? Or are you referring to the old Yugoslavia (the one that Tito ran)?

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#85

Post by athrowaw »

kstenerud wrote: post #70
EGreg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me, not only did I read it, but I also thought through these issues over the years. "Yes, Politician B did do this-or-that immoral thing, but then again so do other politicians. So what's the big deal?" This is not what's being said. What's being said is: We typically want to stay neutral among conflicts. You are pressuring us to take an unprecedented step of banning athletes from country X because country X di…

Actually no, it's about moral shifts. The morality of today is very, very, very different from what it was a mere thousand years ago. Brigandry (killing travelers on the road so that you can take their stuff) was once considered a noble profession, for example. But the world moves on, and morality has a tendency to move in tectonic shifts. Suddenly (it seems), what was okay is no longer okay, because the people say s…

Increase in whataboutism I think is caused by unequal treatment for the same evil actions. Imagine there is a crime done by a person of a race X who gets a warning and the same crime done by a person of a race Y who goes to jail. Now by amplifying how bad person of a race Y did and asking for a death penalty you only increase that inequality of treatment.

How do you see we push for a movement and solidarity against evil in an equal for all manner in a world where some countries may not have economic power to put sanctions and other countries can ignore UN because of their power?

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#86

Post by EGreg »

testrun wrote: post #84
EGreg wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did we move onto this? I guess you are referring to the UN, and the "rules-based international order" where you need UN approval to go bomb a country that didn't attack you. Stuff like that, right? Well, just to keep on that narrow focus (and not even invoking anything else), the USA and NATO has violated it multiple times in the last 25 years alone. Let's just take one relatively tame example: In 1999, NATO bom…

Just a question on a tangent: When you refer to Yugoslavia you mean the Federal republic Of Yugoslavia? The one that constituted Serbia and Kosovo? Or are you referring to the old Yugoslavia (the one that Tito ran)?

Federal Republic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#87

Post by athrowaw »

kstenerud wrote: post #73
EGreg wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is simple. Would it be beautiful for you to see people banning US athletes? At this point, I think it would, for many people. Why don't we see it anywhere? That's the question. I think for the same reason this happens: https://www.france24.com/en/20180910-usa-trump-threatens-arr... I think that speaks for itself. What is the year when it became "not ok to invade, occupy and bomb other countries that pres…

> The question is simple. It most certainly is not. > Would it be beautiful for you to see people banning US athletes? At this point, I think it would, for many people. Why don't we see it anywhere? That's the question. This does reach the crux of the matter. Why don't we see Cubans boycotting American athletes and gaining major international support? Why aren't Syrians raising hell at every athletic competition, pro…

> Answer: Because on the whole it's not important enough to them to warrant the investment of effort and time. Because America's behaviors aren't that far out of the international norm of today (sad to say).

And to elaborate on “important enough” it’s about how beneficial for them is this to take the fight, and not about the moral or how "far out of the international norm". X can be amoral, but if powerful country X is doing it I will loose a lot in this fight, so I won’t take it. But if less powerful country Y is doing the same, there is high chance of winning and I will take the fight.

Asking “How about X?” is highlighting the issue - the more powerful country you are the more amoral things world can tolerate you doing. (The author of the comment doesn’t try to justify the bad actions, but tries to highlight the inequality of treatment).

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#88

Post by prohobo »

EGreg wrote: post #12
rippercushions wrote: post #2

Is there a TL;DR, or is this just a complex clusterfuck? I was expecting standard Ukraine vs Russia issues, but the article goes on to describe what looks like a personal vendetta between two top Kazakh players, safety concerns about travel in Delhi, etc etc.

EDIT: I originally wrote this to ask if anyone else is bothered by the hypocrisy. If you're going to downvote this, I would definitely appreciate if you at least write why you disagree. Also if you are bothered by the hypocrisy, I'd appreciate if you said so. Either way, am I just being crazy? I know I'm not the only one, but I also want to understand where I'm wrong. "What appears to be the position of the Muzychuks…

Yes, it bothers me. It's tribalism, and that's also exactly why the US gets a pass. They've been bombing other tribes, not ours.

The problem is that the world is not some kind of morally integrated system, it's glued together through diplomacy and trade. Moral principles are still very tribalistic, they only really apply to "me and mine". Look at the way we treat animals; humanely raising and killing billions of them in concentration camps because we like tasty burgers. But we love them.

According to our society's moral principles you are absolutely right, but they don't apply in this case because Russia is not part of the tribe - they're being excommunicated.

This isn't necessarily a moralistic judgement of what's happening, because it's human nature (and arguably all predators) and the only way things like this stop is if our view of who or what is part of our "tribe" expands to encompass all things.

It's not good to be naïve about it because you'll drive yourself crazy, especially when powerful actors are actively trying to demoralise and propagandise the population.

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#89

Post by kelipso »

77pt77 wrote: post #81
kelipso wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

World rank number 8 is not competitive? Lol. A single experiment getting to 8th ranked player is a major win for his theory. Tens of thousands of players try to get there and fail.

https://www.chess.com/article/view/best-chess-players-of-all... Anyway, I really don't care about chess, so make of it whatever you want. > A single experiment getting to 8th ranked player is a major win for his theory That's not how it works.

Don't give me this of all time nonsense. Rank 8 at any time is a major accomplishment. You have no idea about chess if you think it's not a huge accomplishment. And yes that's how it works, think Bayesian instead of yes/no.

Re: Fide Women’s Grand Prix Collapses into “Chaos” as Players Withdraw

#90

Post by drewcoo »

brookst wrote: post #36
xkcd1963 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it rather puzzling why people seggregate genders even though the idea is to make society more equal? Wouldn't it be much more beneficial for women and men to share the same room so to say.

There is no central planning. You can go create a chess tournament for short people, or vegetarians, or people who have lived in at least three countries, and nobody will stop you. Nor will your decision be contrary to “the idea” of a more equal society.

Vegetarian chess championships:

https://www.facebook.com/people/Vegetarian-Chess-Championshi...

Not that they don't exist, but I couldn't find the others.

Post reply on HN