Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Zero energy ready homes are coming

energy.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 454 posts

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#81

Post by olau »

paiute wrote: post #47

Those dehumidifiers make these places uninhabitable for me. Constant low humidity is really unhealthy. Without them these ultra insulated homes have major vapor and mold issues. Being highly insulated is good but at a point it's just silly. I'd rather see efforts to insulate old trailers, manufactured homes, etc. Rich people experimenting with zero energy homes don't need a credit.

I agree on low humidity being bad, but your remark on insulation does not seem correct. I'm only familiar with cold climates, so perhaps I'm overlooking something, but mold needs moisture to grow, so it will appear where water condenses out of warm air on a cold surface. You can typically see this in windows.

So you need to prevent cold surfaces. The best way to do that is improving the insulation. The reason you can see water drops in the windows is precisely because they are inadequately insulated (e.g. only double paned).

Now, it's true that if you make an airtight home, then you need some kind of air exchange. And if it's really cold outside, then even if it's wet, once that air is warmed up, it ends up at a low relative humidity. In that case you need a humidifier. I guess depending on the outside air, you'd probably need both to stay in a comfortable range.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#82

Post by Syonyk »

themitigating wrote: post #79
Syonyk wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of this is dependent on highways and new roads, new electrical, water, and sewage infrastructure. If you're 20 miles outside a town, you almost certainly have electrical service, but are on a well and septic system. City water and sewer doesn't make sense at those sort of densities. You also probably have the land to easily put a nice ground mount PV array in, and grow a good bit of your own food, should you ca…

I don't think this is the case for suburbs, at least for water. Septic tanks are used I think

Suburbs aren't generally described as the "sticks." That would be exurbs or lower.

A typical suburban subdivision will have city water and sewage, though depending on the details, you might have a couple community wells and individual septic fields (or a link to city sewage).

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#83

Post by jonfw »

antisthenes wrote: post #54
Syonyk wrote: post #28

When you've confused "per kWh cost" with "energy to the house delivery costs," this sort of stuff sounds good on paper, but it doesn't fundamentally solve the problem that in the winter, homes use a lot more energy than they can generate, and in the spring/fall, they will generate a lot more energy than they need. I've got a large ground mount solar install I put in a few years ago (15.9kW nameplate, though mostly ea…

Once use cases like yours become more common (e.g. 4MWh surplus), industries will adjust and buy surplus power from homeowners like you, and the nation as a whole will spend less time and effort on maintaining the grid and power plants that generate electricity. We will be able to run power-hungry industries (e.g. steel-aluminum/smelting) for very little cost. > And even with 5kW of solar hung for a ~100 sq ft shed,…

If we expect industry to take up the excess, than either 1. that industry will only operate according to the weather or 2. We'll still need some variable power generation that can be switched on when wind or solar isn't producing enough

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#84

Post by mikeyouse »

xyst wrote: post #64

I just see this as another subsidy for single family housing developments. The home may be "zero energy ready" or whatever greenwashing term they want to use. But the fact is they are spending that energy in driving from the sticks (in some cases >20 miles away) and back, driving from their home to the grocery store and back, driving to areas of interest (ie, parks, restaurants, doctors appointments). All of this is…

Not to interrupt a good rant, but the program includes duplexes, townhomes, multifamily projects, and mixed use buildings with residential less than 6 stories. It's a sensible plan that was passed by sensible people who actually do have climate goals in mind.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2022-10/DOE%20ZER...

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#85

Post by danans »

xyst wrote: post #64

I just see this as another subsidy for single family housing developments. The home may be "zero energy ready" or whatever greenwashing term they want to use. But the fact is they are spending that energy in driving from the sticks (in some cases >20 miles away) and back, driving from their home to the grocery store and back, driving to areas of interest (ie, parks, restaurants, doctors appointments). All of this is…

> All of this is dependent on highways and new roads, new electrical, water, and sewage infrastructure.

What if this was done this brownfield development in areas with existing infrastructure? New development doesn't need to be coupled with sprawl. There is a significant amount of multifamily development that looks exactly like that. The IRA also included large incentives for the retrofit of the existing housing stock.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#86

Post by s1artibartfast »

boringg wrote: post #52
s1artibartfast wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair if you're talking about all utilities in the city. Sewer and water are the main problems in an urban environment. Rooftop solar on the other hand is dirt cheap and only slightly more complicated to install then plugging in a toaster.

Actually rooftop solar isn't dirt cheap where we are. And typically requires an electric service upgrade - you also need to make sure you aren't near the end of your roof life as you'll need to upgrade your roof as well. I'm all for it where it makes sense but it isn't a blanket statement.

I mean dirt cheap and absence of cumbersome regulations and requirements. For example, you can find panels as low as $0.07/kwh these days.

My primary complaint is in agreement; solar is not cheap once you take them into account

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#87

Post by AdrianB1 »

Syonyk wrote: post #70
eppp wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been toying with the idea of buying used panels in bulk and doing the same, but the payoff just isnt there at the current battery price. What kind of frame did you install to mount the panels? I have tons of room for ground mount and would love to do it diy as soon as the costs line up.

My system is grid tie, because the local plans review process and I didn't see eye-to-eye on batteries. I have a solar power trailer for backup power. https://www.sevarg.net/tag/solar2020/ documents the build. My frames are timber, though a neighbor built a very similar system with metal frames and 72 cell panels, and got his costs down quite a bit further - he's around $1/W installed, mine was somewhat higher at abo…

No welding is needed, you can use metal clamps to hold the pipes together. I have my panels on metal structure with no welding, I used bolts for joins.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#88

Post by mikeyouse »

amluto wrote: post #76
Gibbon1 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Things switched from insulating the wall cavity to insulating the outside of the house. Oh good they finally figured that out. Cause that's where you want the stuff. And insulating a bunch cavities is labor intensive.

I’m not at all convinced that exterior insulation would have lower labor cost. You have to competently install sheets of rigid insulation, and then you need to competently install siding over it. Insulating cavities needs some skilled labor if you use mineral wool, but a skilled installer goes fast . Or you can use some kind of blown in product, which takes very little labor. (I have never seen competently installed…

Insulting cavities well is immensely labor intensive and unfortunately is still required in homes with exterior insulation so you're kind of getting the worst of both worlds. Exterior insulation is an absolute breeze in comparison though, there are tons of product on the market that integrate the sheathing and insulation into a single unit so it installs just like any other exterior sheathing would.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#89

Post by paganel »

Crazy how the Americans try to create "zero energy homes" (whatever that means) using basically wood structures. Wood is a very, very bad heat insulator.

The best proven heat insulator when it comes to building a home is earth itself, that's why for hundreds to thousands of years dug-out huts have been the norm on several continents, for different cultures/civilisations. Granted, you cannot build a macmansion-like house using only earth+some wood.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#90

Post by anonuser123456 »

Syonyk wrote: post #28

When you've confused "per kWh cost" with "energy to the house delivery costs," this sort of stuff sounds good on paper, but it doesn't fundamentally solve the problem that in the winter, homes use a lot more energy than they can generate, and in the spring/fall, they will generate a lot more energy than they need. I've got a large ground mount solar install I put in a few years ago (15.9kW nameplate, though mostly ea…

Sounds like you need a geothermal ground loop.
Post reply on HN