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Rivian announces 1B gross loss and 600M revenue [pdf]

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Re: Rivian announces 1B gross loss and 600M revenue [pdf]

#81

Post by cassac »

basch wrote: post #73
cassac wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that until Tesla wrecked everyone.

Wrecked them how? It’s 22Q4 sales numbers are a quarter of GM. They currently rank in 9th place in production. It’s taken them a decade to get a dealer network built. Their repairs timeline sound just as horrifying as their competitors. https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2023-us-auto-sales-figures-by-...

But their owners love them and the kids love them. If you adjust the market to be just for what they do, electric cars and not all cars, they are indeed wrecking them.

It was a segment the ICE car manufacturers mostly ignored and now they have profitable competition where it didn’t exist before. Maybe not wrecked but definitely lold.

Re: Rivian announces 1B gross loss and 600M revenue [pdf]

#82

Post by tstrimple »

majormajor wrote: post #65
mbgerring wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Rivian is a full-size truck and performs as good or better than the Lightning for similar tasks.

That bed length disadvantage is pretty significant if you're coming to it from the "truck user" market vs the "weekend camper" or "soccer mom" market. I was interested in a Rivian until I saw one in person and saw how short that bed was. It wasn't the first spec I'd looked at on paper, but jumped out in-person. In that size I'd probably go cheap with a Maverick hybrid for now until there are more full-EV competitors.

Just looked it up and realized it isn't even close to passing the sheet good test. I suppose the expectation is to drive with the tailgate down? My minivan seems to be a more competent hauler of material (for my admittedly limited needs) than the Rivian.

Re: Rivian announces 1B gross loss and 600M revenue [pdf]

#83

Post by rconti »

amluto wrote: post #76
cassac wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that until Tesla wrecked everyone.

Tesla is really nothing special. It has one massive advantage: the supercharger network. Other than that, it has an excellent powertrain (eminently clonable), a pretty good nav system, a pretty good adaptive cruise control, no CarPlay or Android Auto, and no interior amenities worth mentioning. And they have absolutely terrible parasitic power consumption, a property that every other manufacturer has nailed for decad…

Do other EV makers have better parasitic drain? I'm honestly not sure. My Tesla's isn't that bad, but it's not 0. Might be a couple miles a day, which isn't a ton of miles, but it's a lot of energy.

It also seems they have a pretty significant efficiency advantage per kWh. Whenever I see EVs compared, the general consensus seems to be Tesla has a lead above everyone else.

Re: Rivian announces 1B gross loss and 600M revenue [pdf]

#84

Post by luckylion »

PaulsWallet wrote: post #23
gwbas1c wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public transportation is a luxury. It assumes that you can live in a dense area and that your travel needs coincide with bus/train routes. It's very practical for many, and very impractical for many too.

I ride the bus and I can promise you I don't do it because of luxury. Even if that was true, it would only be true in North America. In the rest of the developed world, public transport extends out into rural areas.

Yeah, if by "extends out" you mean "you can get there, eventually". Not if you mean "you can get there in a reasonable amount of time and you don't need to time it perfectly because you only get two chances a day".

Re: Rivian announces 1B gross loss and 600M revenue [pdf]

#85

Post by night862 »

LanceJones wrote: post #78
alexb_ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"wrecked"... Tesla didn't even come close to wrecking anybody. They came in as a new competitor, and are still massively overvalued because of investor delusion.

Toyota engineers just acknowledged that their teardown of a Model Y "revealed a work of art". Toyota. If my 17,000 shares make me delusional, so be it, friend.

Heh, the art world is full of weird bs. My favorite piece by Pablo “Tesla” Picasso is this one: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/ran-over-something-n...

Truly a work of art.

Re: Rivian announces 1B gross loss and 600M revenue [pdf]

#86

Post by V__ »

cassac wrote: post #77
alexb_ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"wrecked"... Tesla didn't even come close to wrecking anybody. They came in as a new competitor, and are still massively overvalued because of investor delusion.

They may be over valued but everybody is absolutely playing catch-up and are quite a bit away from their profit margins. What’s even worse for the legacy companies is Tesla is the Kleenex/Coke of electric cars to a lot of young minds.

Tesla makes better software right now. But the profit-margins argument seems to be a misconception [1]. Until Tesla distances itself from Musk, I also don't think the brand will stay 'cool' for that long.

[1] https://seekingalpha.com/article/4573601-tesla-gross-margins...

Re: Rivian announces 1B gross loss and 600M revenue [pdf]

#87

Post by basch »

cassac wrote: post #81
basch wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrecked them how? It’s 22Q4 sales numbers are a quarter of GM. They currently rank in 9th place in production. It’s taken them a decade to get a dealer network built. Their repairs timeline sound just as horrifying as their competitors. https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2023-us-auto-sales-figures-by-...

But their owners love them and the kids love them. If you adjust the market to be just for what they do, electric cars and not all cars, they are indeed wrecking them. It was a segment the ICE car manufacturers mostly ignored and now they have profitable competition where it didn’t exist before. Maybe not wrecked but definitely lold.

Lightly dented? Like I said, their lead means almost nothing.

I don’t know what being loved really has to do with production. It won’t take long for a bunch of companies to have equally loved products, and in 30 years, Tesla’s “lead” will be a footnote. Unless they do, future tense, wreck everybody.

It’s a weird response to to my claim that everything but the product matters just as much, if not more. I’m not at all saying Teslas product is or isn’t the best at the moment.

Re: Rivian announces 1B gross loss and 600M revenue [pdf]

#88

Post by explaininjs »

virgildotcodes wrote: post #14
explaininjs wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be far worse to have scheduled bus routes and train tracks cutting across the vast wilderness than the occasional electric vehicle cruising through.

Huh, as opposed to the roads and highways cutting across the vast wilderness that we have now?

Not really sure what (if any) claim you're making here. I'm defining wilderness above to be "those areas without sufficient road infrastructure to support heavy vehicles like busses", if that helps clarify.

Re: Rivian announces 1B gross loss and 600M revenue [pdf]

#89

Post by tsudounym »

kelnos wrote: post #80
tsudounym wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A double track train line can move orders of magnitude more people than a 30-lane highway can. Cars and highways are space inefficient, and highways cause property values surrounding it to decrease due to the pollution and noise.

You're not really responding to what the parent poster said. We're not talking about 30-lane highways, we're talking about a small one-lane road that only needs to serve tens of people per day. A train route for that is absurd.

Because of the space inefficiency of cars, you end up building and widening way too may roads, destroying the countryside. Trains allow you keep development contained without spoiling the countryside. Forgot where I saw this, but a Swiss women used to see lines of trucks in her village until the government heavily promoted electrified freight rail. Now there's little to no trucks in her village.

Re: Rivian announces 1B gross loss and 600M revenue [pdf]

#90

Post by chickenpotpie »

basch wrote: post #73
cassac wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought that until Tesla wrecked everyone.

Wrecked them how? It’s 22Q4 sales numbers are a quarter of GM. They currently rank in 9th place in production. It’s taken them a decade to get a dealer network built. Their repairs timeline sound just as horrifying as their competitors. https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2023-us-auto-sales-figures-by-...

Tesla is a luxury car manufacturer. Of course they have less sales. Luxury brands have lower volume and higher profit margins. You're comparing Gucci and Levi's.
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